Happy Birthday, Mom!

It was a pleasant afternoon at the Royal Teton Ranch. My mom, Elizabeth Clare Prophet, and I were walking outside of her house at the Ranch Headquarters in Corwin Springs, Montana. It was on one of several trips I made to the Paradise Valley in 1997 and 1998. Having left the CUT community at the end of 1993, I went back on a number of occasions to visit family and friends, and for two weddings (one of my sister Erin to John Devine, and the other of my stepfather Edward Francis to his beloved Eileen).

I had made a special trip down to the Ranch to see my mom. I was worried about her. Her mental capacity had been diminishing for some time–she was starting to exhibit the classic loss of inhibitions characteristic of Alzheimer’s patients. Following her divorce from Edward, her fourth husband, she had begun to carry on a series of highly indiscreet emotional and physical affairs with male followers and hangers-on. She had also been actively performing “karmic readings” in which many church members were publicly humiliated. She carried on brazenly at the end, her sense of spiritual infallibility persisting far past her decline of inhibitions.

Soon after, during this period, she also entered psychotherapy in Bozeman. She had confided in my sisters and I that she was beginning to feel remorse for some of her actions during her 33-year tenure as messenger and head of the Church Universal and Triumphant. It was a very interesting period in her life. She had a unique window of opportunity. Her brain decay was uneven, and apparently the megalomaniacal portions fell away before her normal cognitive functions did. This explains her remorse and her attempts to make amends.

She wrote scores of handwritten letters. She sent them to staff or church members who she felt she had wronged in some way. Her apologies were varied and wide-ranging. They ran the gamut from regret for simple misstatements and insensitivities, to apologies for having led people seriously astray in their lives. In short, mom’s therapy and writing of letters was as close as she ever came to an actual repudiation of her messenger-ship. But the implication was clear: She saw how her claims on divine wisdom combined with the spiritual neediness of her followers to wreak havoc in her community.

But the real shocker was yet to come: That day, on a casual stroll through the characteristically stark Montana landscape, she gave me the explanation and a measure of resolution I had sought my entire life. This all took place in a 5-10 minute conversation.

Here is what she said to me. (She also made these statements at other times to two of my three sisters.) This is as close to verbatim as I can remember:

“Sean, I have something important to tell you. I want you to know that I realize I have abused power in my ministry in this church. I have hurt many people. I’ve been doing a lot of reflection and spiritual work, and I understand now why this happened.

When I was embodied on Atlantis as a high priestess, I had a similar position of leadership. I made the same mistakes 10,000 years ago. I manipulated my followers sexually and politically for my personal gain. In this life, it was my mission to come back, to right the wrongs I’d committed in my earlier life.

I was given the opportunity by El Morya and the Lords of Karma to come into a spiritual community and lead it properly. But I fell into the same traps–I did the same thing in this life. I failed in my mission. I realize now that it’s too late for me to do anything about it. I’m losing my mental capacity, and I’m doing the best I can in therapy, and writing letters. But there’s too many people, and not enough time for me to make amends to everyone.

Sean, I want you to tell people what I said. Tell as many people as you can. Help me to pay the karmic debt I’ve incurred through my abuse of power.”

I was stunned. This was the biggest bombshell I’d ever heard in my life. I had never once heard my mom even admit it was POSSIBLE for her to be wrong. I had never imagined that she could so easily relinquish her claim on infallibility. The questions came fast and furious in my mind. How did this jive with her claim to have been a Bodhisattva who had balanced 100% of her karma? How could she have been so led astray by her own unlived life, her own shadow? How could the entire ministry of one of the ‘two witnesses’ (who she claimed to be) be tainted by wrongdoing?

In that moment, I felt her tremendous vulnerability. I felt a great deal of love and compassion for her. I told her I would do as she asked. In the years that followed, that conversation came to represent a major milestone in the relinquishing of my own faith. It became an object lesson for me. I had witnessed her failed prophecies and bad management during my time at the church. Now I had an admission from her own lips.

Through most of the 36 years I knew my mom, she was dedicated first and foremost to the ‘masters’ and her organization. She was often aloof and distant with her family. So my feelings toward her were complex. As I grew up in the church, and especially when I went to work for her, I had a constant fear that she did not have my best interests at heart. Rather than the encouragement I would have expected from a parent–to pursue my dreams and make the most of my life–I experienced her relentless imposition of a value system that placed the work of the church above all else. When I left the organization in 1993, it was as much for this reason as any other. In the end, I realized I could not trust her. She had a conflict of interest. She had to make a choice whether to be loyal to her family or her flock. She unequivocally chose her flock.

But my love for her continues even today on a certain level, especially since I know she struggled at the end. I wish she had kept enough mental capacity to continue her psychotherapy, because I would have enjoyed getting to know her as a true human being, (instead of how I actually knew her–as a demigod with no humility.) She also would have enjoyed watching her grandchildren grow up.

It is with a mixture of profound sadness and a strong sense of purpose that I publish her remarks. She would have wanted it this way. In fact, I think that having seen the disastrous results of her organizational power trip, in retrospect, I think she would have chosen to undo it all.

Unfortunately, it is too late for that. Church Universal and Triumphant is a cult that has now survived past its founding generation. Though the organization faltered for a few years, it now seems to have stabilized and shows no signs of disintegrating. As long as there are people who need the particular brand of Ascended Masters teachings my parents offered, their successors will continue to propagate their messianic zeal.

I find it interesting to contemplate what might happen if my parents came back to life and paid a hypothetical visit to the church they founded. I’d like to imagine them walking into the so-called ‘King Arthur’s Court’ at Ranch Headquarters together, getting up on the altar, and sharing with the congregation what my mom shared with me that day. I’m certain that they would be denounced as impostors.

My parents were successful partly because they told people what they wanted to hear–more so because they believed it themselves. But in the end, they were prisoners of what they had taught. The beliefs they propagated took on a life of their own. There were people on staff who knew my mom’s writings better than she did. She spoke and dictated in a stream of consciousness style. There would have been no way for her to have kept consistent about every aspect of the teachings over 30-plus years. It wasn’t humanly possible.

I can remember several occasions when mom received letters about contradictions in her messages. She often would then make a pragmatic choice as to which interpretation was correct, and then reiterate it from the altar–so as to clear up any ambiguities. This was nothing if not political posturing. Since people in the community had their own expectations and traditions, she was not free to re-evaluate what she had taught.

It’s a familiar story–how a series of ad hoc spiritual observations, opinions, and teachings becomes scripture. It has happened many times before in religious history, and will no doubt occur again. Some humans have an innate need to follow leaders. Often the leader they think they are following is simply a subjective caricature they have created.

My parents planted the seed of this tree that has taken root in the minds of their followers, and is now larger than all of us. Nothing can stop the onward march of the beliefs and delusions of CUT or any church except the wholesale reclaiming by members of reason and critical thought. Nothing that is, except the reclaiming of their own self-esteem. Given the human propensity to clutch at easy answers and simplistic explanations, I know that to expect this en masse is well-nigh impossible. But it remains an important pursuit for me to encourage everyone I contact to persevere on that difficult quest for objective truth.

Based on my mothers request, which I recounted above, I have taken on that role of denouncing faith and promoting reason. I do this passionately. Faith was the enabling factor that allowed her and my dad to waste their lives, treat people (including their own families) badly, and engage in the abuse of power she later regretted.

Faith cost my parents their relationships with their children, their health, and ultimately their self-knowledge. Faith subjected them both to delusions of grandeur–to imagining that they were the “two witnesses” from the book of Revelation, Boddhisattvas, and more. In my mom’s case, her uncritical acceptance of reincarnation even provided her with an ‘out’: She was no ordinary human tyrant, but was simply fulfilling a well-worn path she forged during her ‘high-priestess embodiment on Atlantis’.

Even in her final moments of lucidity, she still lacked a real grasp on who she was as a flesh-and-blood person. For most of her life, she was out of touch with her underlying motivations. She had forgotten about the little girl “Betty Clare,” now the grown daughter of Hans and Frida Wulf. She had even gone so far as to have denounced her own father (in 1985) as the reincarnation of the devil “Peshualga.”

Faith removed my parents from a connection to the physical world, and destroyed their humanity. It allowed them to trivialize and mock other people’s pain as insignificant against the backdrop of the epic cosmic battles they imagined they were fighting. Their faith caused them to denounce people in their organization who made genuine mistakes as “tools of the sinister force.” It blocked their capacity for introspection and self-correction for most of their lives.

Faith also caused my parents to externalize their problems. They believed they were constantly under attack. That anyone who disagreed with them or stood up to them was aligned with ‘dark forces.’ Even their human foibles could be chalked up to these forces. Restless? Can’t sleep? Having difficulty living with glaring internal conflicts? It’s ‘energy’ from the ’sinister force.’ Get the ‘tag’ in here to decree (pray) all night.

Both my father and mother also put their personal dreams on hold for their organization. Both suffered stress, humiliation in the press, and loss of any friends they might have had. Both became largely political animals, to maintain the power base offered to them by their followers. In addition to causing tremendous suffering in the lives of others–they were ultimately consumed by their endeavor.

So happy 67th birthday, mom, I wish you were here to share it with me and my boys. I wish dad and you had never started the church, and we’d had a chance to grow up as a normal family. I wish you’d had a chance to be a normal woman, to get to know yourself better, and to be happy. I wish you’d promoted the same spontaneity and individualism to others that you claimed for yourself

Most of all, I wish I could continue our conversation we had that day at the Ranch. I thank you profoundly for those few moments of lucidity–it’s more than a lot of adult children get from their dysfunctional parents before they die.

Mom, on your 67th birthday, I want to tell you: You didn’t fail me. You taught me a lot. The most important thing you ever taught me was the object lesson of what happened in your community. Learning this was worth all the anguish and all the lost years. Thanks especially for caring enough about me to open up and make such a towering admission of your mistakes and your regret. It must have been really difficult for you. Mom, I can’t help you pay your karmic debt, because I don’t think there is any such thing. There are only circumstances, and choices. I’m glad you chose to own up to the choices you made. It just makes you human, and I love you for it.

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Comments (110 comments)

G / April 8th, 2006, 3:22 am / #1


This birthday letter to your mother is really beautiful as well as telling. I'm sure this will be a revelation for church members to hear. As important as that is, having not been a part of the church myself, but rather having gotten to know you as an individual in your own right, it speaks more to me of the deep inner work you have and are doing in the face of enormous odds; enormous odds against not only self examination, but against sanity. Your dedication to both the discernment of what is real as well as the refusal to let your own wounds prevent you from opening your heart to someone who was the source of so much pain, speaks of a level of maturity, integrety and strength of character that only comes from authentic self confrontation and honest self appraisal.

At the risk of redundancy let me say again; To have emerged from such a crazy cult background, to have forged ahead in your own relentless pursuit to understand what is true in life, as well as to work so hard (and may I say very successfully so) to define who you truly are in your own right, not just as your parents son, would be testament enough to your autonomy of spirit and strength of character. …..

But now in this letter, I witness a level of compassion, understanding, even tenderness, for one who was the source of so much of your own suffering, (as well as others) that it is clear you have and are continuously traveling willingly into the heart of your own pain, your own darkness as well as light, and have squarely faced your own capacity to wound and betray. Without such a journey one can only feign empathy. But what is expressed here is a genuine opening of the heart to a level of compassion that exists despite betrayal, that is without false sentiment, able to see nuance, and accept the shades of grey that all humans embody. And that, my friend is the mark of a heroic journey/vision, and dare I say it…spiritual depth.

It is a gift to know someone so committed to personal growth, committed to facing the imperfect and the ugly, within self and other, as well as to honoring the staggering beauty and profound capacity to love that is inherent to the human experience. I am proud to be your friend.


Mike Bommerson / April 9th, 2006, 3:14 pm / #2

Thanks for sharing this story Sean.
Somehow you just filled in the missing link between the things I had read so far.
(Just curious: when is your own birthday?)

Regards from Amsterdam,

Aaron Kinney / April 10th, 2006, 2:25 pm / #3

That was incredibly deep, personal, touching, and introspective. I was very moved by what you said and the depth to which you opened up your personal life for your readers BlackSun. It takes quite a bit of courage and love to allow oneself to be so vulnerable by being so honest and forthcoming.

I think commenter G said it more eloquently than I can. This post of yours was amazingly touching and real.

Thank you for being willing to share the personal side of a cult personality that has affected the lives of so many. It brings many answers to many people, I am sure.

BlackSun / April 10th, 2006, 5:22 pm / #4

Thanks G, Mike, and Aaron. It’s nice to have you guys reading. Maybe the “apostate killers” have decided to stay away this time.

Mike, my birthday is May 9.

Regards to you…

James Prince / April 15th, 2006, 5:43 pm / #5

As a former member of the church I have to say that this article was long overdue. There was so much chaos near the end of ECP’s leadership that I figured something had to be wrong. I could never understand how a person who had all of her superhuman abilities and was able to walk and talk with angels and masters could be so cold towards people and so unhappy with her life. Like you I have made my peace with her and I accept her apology that you have published for her with this article. I doubt I will ever really understand her and all that happened with the church. Some still believe she was annointed by God. Others believe she was evil. To this day I honestly do not know what to make of her. I hope that somewhere somehow she will find herself again as she had so much to offer this world. I looked at her as an amazing teacher who just happened to be able to commune with God. To leave so many broken hearts in her wake has been one of the saddest things I have ever seen in my life. Peace to you Sean. Peace to all those caught up in the CUT rise and fall.

cathy / April 17th, 2006, 10:18 am / #6

Powerful and interesting. I was involved with CUT in the late 90s before your mom announced she had Alzheimers. I know she had issues with power but have forgiven her for it. Maybe Sean you will eventually have to put the whole thing in to the flame and move on with your life. Your mom had a mission to serve and she did fulfill it, albeit in a flawed way. I know lives were ruined and that you feel you were “cheated” of a normal childhood. My parents weren’t the leaders of any particular new age cult and I feel cheated too. My parents were never “there” for me; I’ve struggled as an adult to come to terms with years of neglect also. You’re not special. I don’t mean to be harsh but get over it and move on. I’ve listened to this business about CUT and ECP for years and am tired of it. Mistakes were made. I still believe your mom and dad were contracted to bring these ancient teachings to the public. Have you ever considered that their mission might have been more important than raising you and your sisters? Why is it that you would have to have the undivided attention of your parents? I’ve never had mine, that’s for sure. I appreciate hearing about your mom’s admission and what this meant to you but really you must move on. Everyone knows ECP abused her power. It’s not news.

BlackSun / April 17th, 2006, 5:02 pm / #7

“To this day I honestly do not know what to make of her.”

James, thanks for your comments. I’d suggest looking at her as simply a human being–no different than you or I.


“I still believe your mom and dad were contracted to bring these ancient teachings to the public.”

That’s the problem cathy, you still believe. That’s why you don’t see that this letter was ABOUT letting go and moving on. And it was about an admission from my mom’s own lips of something she had denied for decades. It may not be news to you, because you have been forced to make Elizabeth Clare Prophet “OK” with all her faults, so that you can continue to have your beliefs the way you want them.

But for others who are trying to move on with their lives WITHOUT ECP, hearing this retelling has been a cathartic and valuable experience.

Not to mention the fact that the whole thing (and this blog) are the end result of something she herself asked me to do. I did EXACTLY what she asked.

ann / April 23rd, 2006, 5:27 pm / #8

Thanks Sean for taking the time to put your feelings & thoughts into words, for fulfilling your mom’s request & for your insight/interpretation of the CUT phenomenon. I can testify (ex post facto, of course)to the importance of critical thinking & reasoning esp. in light of the global information age & availability of enough opinions/stances that would’ve sent any Greek philosopher to the madhouse. I’d have to say that experience stands as the best teacher for me. I’ve learned the most valuable lessons via living them. My many years associated with CUT is a testament to that & has also brought me to a place where faith (but not hope) is absent. I try everyday to make peace with myself & luckily time seems to work things out of the system as well. Thanks again for sharing in such a personal way. Love to you & your family…

BlackSun / April 26th, 2006, 8:17 am / #9

Ann, thanks for your comments. Best to you and your family also.

Sandy Kazak / April 26th, 2006, 7:48 pm / #10

I have read your story about your mother, Sean about three different times.I get something different out of it than your fan club.My faith in a Creator is intact and I am still interested in learning the laws of the universe.Your mother served whatever purpose.It is not for me to say or judge what her purpose was but I will tell you a story.I met my ex wife because of CUT.We met at the Chicago Teaching Center.I think that we had just gotten married and we were at a conference together in Chicago when your mother was in the convention lobby chatting with some people.My wife said that we should both go up to her and that I should meet her.My wife had already met her in Montana.Well,I did not think it was necessary because I did not want to intrude or impose upon your mother’s free time.Also,I did not need her to comment upon our marriage.I was not interested in hearing her prediction,prophecy or advice about our marriage.So we did not approach her.No regrets.Like most people,I suppose, I don’t solicit outside interference with my decisions or my course of action.Our marriage lasted seven years and we are still in touch.
What you don’t say in your story is whether or not you think that the entire series of dictations and Masters are a fraud perpetrated by your parents.You infer that they are a fraud but I don’t think that you came out and actually said it.So,what is it? And,do you have any proof?
What,then about the Ballards?Are they a fraud to you?And Buddha?
I said my faith in a creator is strong.I was watching a show about camels.When the calf is born,the hoofs are turned forward and there is very soft padded skin on them so that the mother is not injured during delivery.This skin then wears off as the baby camel begins walking,which is right away as to avoid predators.Very interesting;the protection of both the mother and the calf by the mother.How can that be and who made it that way?You are obviously not the one to ask but consider this as a miracle of life.Who made the moon and the planets and the sun,Sean?

kajilina / April 27th, 2006, 7:11 pm / #11

Dearest Shaun,
I had the good pleasure to meet your mother in the 70’s when I was going thru a very difficult time in my life. On one hand I had the vision of a higher reality on the other I detested dogma. I never joined, but read, listened and decreed because I knew in my heart that the information your mother was sharing was and is our ancient birthright, that so many have forgotten. I acually ran into her in the ladies room (after one of her profound dictations) and I remember asking her about past lives and before I could get the last word out she said in a very stern voice “It doesn’t matter who you were, but who you are now and what you do with it!” I already knew that but was profoundly greatful for the reminder. I believe as many people as there are, each and every one of is here for a very different reason, like an infinite mandala, yet we are all cells in the body of this greater picture. I feel our parents come to teach us of what not to do, that is just as important then anything else. Your mother was such a light for me at a very dark time and her Presence and her reminder of mine is what really matters. This time it is not about religion, or dogma, or being a follower, because it keeps this world fighting and in fear and separation but that each and everyone of us has the same flame inside and it is our time and blessed good fortune to be able to be anchors of the light for all humanity, just be it!! I am grateful for her reminder and despite her thinking that she didn’t pull it off, in my heart she did Shaun, because the lesson she taught of what happens when you have followers in invaluable. We all need to be leaders together this time!! I send her my profound blessings and it’s time for you to start enjoying your life and know truly, that it really is all perfect, your mothers failure would only exist if you/we don’t get the true message. These are universal truths that each and every soul recognises at some point in their evolution back to the light! Be in joy and bliss precious son!!! No worries, enjoy your life and treat your children the way you wanted to be treated, and your mothers life and gifts are truly vindicated!!!! Thank you for giving me the opportunity to give back!!!

BlackSun / April 27th, 2006, 9:01 pm / #12


“I am still interested in learning the laws of the universe.”

Study science and engineering then, if you haven’t already.

“the entire series of dictations and Masters are a fraud”…”And,do you have any proof?”

I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were a fraud. Because I think both my parents believed in what they were doing. As far as proof of falsehood is concerend? You are appealing to the “lack of proof of the negative,” which is a logical fallacy.

But you CAN ask for evidence that, for example, there is such a personality as El Morya or Saint Germain, and if they were indeed speaking through Elizabeth Clare Prophet, and not Monroe Shearer, for example. The proposition that these masters exist and she spoke for them is POSSIBLE, but cannot be proven. I would think believers would be far more concerned about this than I am. I say show me the evidence. If you can’t come up with such evidence, you’re most likely following an unwitting charlatan.

Re: quirks of nature. Sandy, you really must not understand evolution, or how complex and capable it is, or how many permutations are possible. I suggest you read Dawkins’ “The Blind Watchmaker,” reviewed below.

All this so-called ‘Intelligent Design’ nonsense will soon be seen for what it is.

“Who made the moon and the planets and the sun,Sean?”

The same creative force that made the rest of the universe. If you want to call it god, fine. But there is no evidence of a personality or consciousness. There was, however a unique intelligence that defined cosmological constants such that they would support life. This is often referred to as the “anthropic principle.” In order for us to be here talking about it, the universe had to have evolved in a manner capable of supporting life.

Other than generalizing, anyone who thinks they know who or what created the universe is being completely disingenuous. We can, however, focus on what we DO know about the universe, which is increasing every day.


I agree that the entire episode was worth it, if only to learn the lesson. Thanks for your comments.

Govert Schuller / May 14th, 2006, 9:25 am / #13

May 14 2006,
Dear Sean Prophet,

Find below something of a response to your open letter to your mother. It’s actually a letter to a good friend of mine. He asked me to post it on your site here, which request I’m gladly fulfilling. Thanks for executing your mother’s request, though, as you will read below, I have a philosophical and moral issue with the way you thought best doing so. I share this writing in the spirit of the theosophical motto ‘no religion higher than truth,’ and in gratitude for the things you did accomplish for your mother and CUT.

Happy Mother’s Day
Govert Schuller

May 06 2006,
Dear xxxx,

Sean’s take on faith and reason is based on a fallacy in this case, IMO, because both need each other. He argues from the basis of a false dichotomy. Of course one can denounce faith on the basis of historical (and current) aberrations in the form of fundamentalism and abuse, but that doesn’t mean it does not have a necessary and benign function in science and argument. One could make a similar argument against reason, for it has shown its own aberrations in logicisms and anti-spiritual empiricism.

My philosophical researches in both domains have made me aware of the faith-component of reason and the reason-component of faith, even to the extent that both meld into one ‘complex.’ First of all in science it has been pointed out that the actual procedure of its progress is based on the hypothetic-deductive method, which means that by hunch or insight one formulates a hypothesis about a certain group of phenomena and then deduce experiments to check if the hunch was right. If the hypothesis survives testing and also survives attempted refutations and leads to more fruitful research, then there is good reason to stick with it. But, as all truths are provisional and all hypotheses have been proven to have limited applicability, one can never be completely sure. It’s open-ended. Now, the faith-component in this process is this tacit sense, molded by experience, that one hypothesis might be better than another, or that the so far only one hypothesis might bear fruit. It’s by a leap of faith that one proceeds. Meanwhile there is another faith component active, and that’s the faith in the whole history of science and its accomplishments so far, which by themselves have only been achieved by leaps in ‘insightful’ faith.

BTW, applying this model one can come to the idea that Bacon’s inductive method was in its own time a helpful idea to get the new natural sciences grounded in reality and leave behind the often erroneous ideas of the church fathers and the Greeks, whose authority were mostly used to deduce the ‘correct’ propositions regarding nature and God. But the Baconian method later on was shown to be deficient, because it did not explicitly incorporate the reality that if one gathers all the facts upon which a reasonable generalization could be based, one already is guided by an implicit criterion of choice, which would be none other than a tacitly held hypothesis. So Bacon was both right and wrong, a subtlety probably a lot of faith-based lightbearers will have a hard time with, for they will tend to absolutize Bacon even in the face of a very reasonable and verifiable philosophy of science.

The reason-component of faith has been quite strong in most religions. Reasoning and arguing have mostly been part of faith-based traditions, but authoritarian decisions regarding what should be considered the truth were more rule than exception. The West has found two ways out of this situation: freedom of religion and freedom of science. The first makes religion a matter of ones private conscience, while science makes it a matter of public experimental proof. Both are fortunately beyond the reach of other people’s dogmatics, but the problem is that conscience is too private and can degenerate into bizare delusions, while science is too public and can degenerate in dogmatically denying inner experiences. Can we find a reasonable middle-way where there would be a public space for confessing one’s own private experience-based spiritual philosophy even while this philosophy can be critically evaluated on the basis of the insight that all truths are only provisional hypotheses, which can be refuted or improved upon within an inter-subjective context? I think that’s quite possible and in the beginning the Theosophical Society was quite successful in creating that space. But that space is very vulnerable, for it is constantly attacked, even from within, by the tendency towards fundamentalist dogmatics in both spirituality and science, or by a migration within people’s consciousness towards a more private secluded realm away from abusive dogmatics, but then also escaping the responsibility of both giving and receiving a healthy dose of intersubjective scrutiny. I hope I gave you some of the contours of a fused faith-reason complex and how that might work.

Sean Prophet gave me a valuable contribution by sharing his mother’s words, because it can clarify certain aberrations within CUT without having to invalidate ECP’s contributions to humanity as he tries to argue. First of all the tendency towards authoritarianism and abuse within CUT did indeed go back all the way to the top. It was ECP’s attitude that filtered down through upper and middle management and local leadership. There are enough anecdotes and now a confession to refute the idea that it was merely the middle cadre that was on a power-trip while ECP was trying to set, ineffectively, the right example of a more relaxed and tolerant leadership. It can be argued that ECP became aware of the need to reform herself and CUT in a gradual way and over the span of many years. Very important here was the hiring of, and delegation of power to, Gilbert Cleirbaut through whom the confession came that CUT had degenerated into a toxic organizational culture. Without some inner reflection by ECP on the state of affairs of CUT this move would never have happened. Open question would be about the extent of her awareness of her own responsibility and even culpability in this and how much she tried to reform herself during the Cleirbaut presidency. Unfortunately the reform was only partially successful. The downsizing and streamlining of operations might have been successful, but the reform of the culture was not. I think the upper management of CUT split up in different factions with the cultural reformers losing the ensuing power struggle and leaving one by one their positions. Measured from certain effects in the field one could only conclude that CUT after Cleirbaut was run by a clique of well-intended, half-competent, non-reformed lightbearers affected still by authoritarian tendencies, which they had learned from ECP and probably regarded, out of idolatry, as sacred.

Now, having said all that about this unfortunate authoritarian attitude of ECP and CUT, does it logically follow that the truth-claims of the Ascended Master teachings as they have come down from Mark and ECP, including their predecessors in Theosophy and the I AM Movement, are therefore all false? Many artists and scientists have had personal shortcomings. Does that invalidate the beauty and truth of their creations? I don’t think so, but Sean apparently does in case of his mother and makes the fallacious step of interpreting his mother’s request to help her pay off her karmic debt incurred by her abuse of power as if she requested to denounce the whole of her faith and teachings as she had shared those in her ministry. Is Sean here on his own power trip and abusing the words of his own mother in order to further his own anti-faith rationalistic world-view? Isn’t he doing the same thing that he is accusing his mother of? In short, is Sean a hypocrite? I hate to think so because his open letter to his mother seems so full of sincerity and valid observations and he is expressing a legitimate complaint about his mother, but still, the question has to be asked.

Dear xxxx, sorry to have gone on for such a while. I only wanted to express the idea that Sean’s take on the purported dichotomy of faith and reason rests on the false premise of their mutually exclusionary nature and that his execution of his mother’s request is seriously marred by the fallacy of inferring from her confessed abuse of power, the falsity of her faith.

BlackSun / May 15th, 2006, 9:38 pm / #14


Science and faith ARE mutually exclusive. People who make the claim that they can be reconciled usually misunderstand science. That’s because science looks at things that can be proven, (which would be everything in the natural world), and faith looks at things that cannot. Faith takes it a step further, and places an even higher value on things that CANNOT be proven. This is what opens the door to all manner of abuses, because faith requires the suspension of the reasoning mind.

Anything that exists can, in theory, be tested and proven. Otherwise it does not exist. That is why there can be no supernatural. Do we have the methods to detect everything in the universe? No, not any more than primitive people could detect radio waves. But if there is anything ‘out there,’ including a pantheon of masters, we should ultimately, in time, be able to find out who they are, where they are, and what frequencies they are using to communicate.

Otherwise, what differentiates the supposed existence of such beings from imaginations and fantasies? And who on earth could tell the difference?

From this uncertainty springs the entire abuse of power. One person claims to speak for god, then another, then another, and then they all start arguing. My dad had to beat back many challengers, until he found a group who would listen to his messages without questioning. Then he had them where he wanted them, and could say or do anything from the pulpit he desired. The same was true for my mom. And the more followers she had, the less likely that any challenges would be made to the teaching. This is what she ultimately realized, and ultimately felt bad about. She began to question her own accuracy after she discovered her own inconsistencies which began to scare her. You cannot therefore question her messengership without questioning her teachings.

Sorry, Govert, I’m taking a very hard line on this. I was on the inside for 30 years, and I watched this all happen. And you are of course free to continue holding your own opinion.

BTW, if you think my mom and dad were messengers, what do you think about the Ballards, or Monroe Shearer, or David Lewis?? These guys all denounced other messengers in their time, and all claim(ed) to be the ‘anointed ones.’ When will this nonsense end? I guess when the followers stop giving the charlatans their time and money. Take away the followers, and every so-called messenger will fall flat on their face like a worn out rag.

David Tame / May 18th, 2006, 3:38 am / #15

Dear Sean,

I’m with Govert on this one and I don’t think your point of view holds consistent logic, given the wider knowledge of mystical experiences and that ‘science’ so-called can be so flawed. It is clear to me that you have no knowledge of the actual history and background to science. Science and faith are in no way mutually exclusive. Many of the greatest scientific advances began with a kind of mystical ‘hunch’, or a dream, or an inner certainty which appears to have been a mystical, spiritual certainty, that one method would work and a hundred others would not. Science is very often nothing to do with a process of logic outplaying itself, like robot-drones trying a million experiments mechanically. It simply does not work that way. There’s an intuitional component which may be likened indeed to faith – or might be likened to insight being ‘given’ from Above.

From my perspective, you were obviously at the core and saw the abuses and the strangeness in CUT. In fact, for some reason you were one of the very first people I found myself writing to when I first went online in the 1990s, within days, and you clearly could not compile in a couple of emails to me all the weirdness you witnessed, though you tried, so thanks for that.

I do understand that a lot was not right. But Govert’s point is that this does not disannul the existence of the Masters, for example. These days they wisely choose to speak through Messengers without appearing physically to all. If the Messengers are flawed - and they do hold a heavy burden – this does not logically lead to a dismissal of the Masters’ existence. In the days of Theosophy They did it differently, and appeared physically to dozens of people. There are untold numbers of testimonies of that.

Read this for example, a fascinating ‘casebook’ of physical encounters:
It’s a great resource since we don’t have to question here the authenticity of Messengers when these are first-hand, physical encounters. In Theosophy they happened by the score.

I agree with Govert’s view completely. Bacon redressed the balance from superstition (but I suspect knew there was a need for faith, and had it). Then you’ve got the various strands of critical philosophy toward modern science, which in at least several ways show the limits to its “logic”. Everything from construction through language to peoples’ career-interests are involved. The philosophy of science shows clearly that science is not logical. It’s a huge subject and you appear to not know of it. Science is a ‘construction’ based upon career-dependence, going with the flow, filtering out awkward data and not looking at it. It’s simply a construction. Science in the West is in fact a form of faith. Faith in science. It’s a very ill-founded faith since the philosophy of science shows how flawed its supposed ‘reasoning’ is.

We only have to read the Vedas to find that they also knew of quarks, aircraft, medicine, electricity, nuclear power – but came from a different angle or perspective, and so ‘our’ science won’t look at or admit that there have been ‘different’ and equally useful sciences through the millennia.

Try reading “Science, The Very Idea� by Steve Woolgar. Or “What Is This Thing Called Science?� by A.F. Chalmers. You’ll very quickly find that your idea of reason being behind ‘science’ is quite ill-founded and incorrect. Science can be highly irrational; on the other hand people with a purpose work through science in faith.

Your perspective is also a denial of mystical experiences which to me have always been at the core of ALL; and by ‘reason’ I can’t deny those I’ve had myself, and the insights which transcended even Faith.

Dear Sean, what you are not seeing – which on one hand is understandable, yet in another sense is rather startling to me – is that your point of view is an extreme reaction to your upbringing. You are correct in being skeptical of the nonsense you were witness to; you are incorrect in rejecting everything due to your own life-history thus far. It’s all reactionism, and very clearly so as we read it.

However, all the best, and very best wishes from me,

David Tame

BlackSun / May 18th, 2006, 9:43 am / #16

David Tame, I’ve addressed all your points elsewhere. You are making at least three common mistakes.

1) Confusing the subjective and objective. Mystical experiences can be very real to the participant–just like hallucinogenic trips can. But the things that happen during these “flashes” cannot be generalized. An insight may arise that helps a person with a real-world problem. But seeing a person or thing in the mind does not make it real in the world.

2) Confusing human error in the conducting of the scientific enterprise with flaws in the method. Plenty of people play politics with science. And I’ll grant you that it is not possible for people to be entirely objective. But the goal of any honest scientist is to try. Don’t confuse the machinations of industry and government with pure science. They are two completely different realms.

3) Confusing claims of sightings of masters with fact. Why do these people’s claims warrant any more attention than UFO sightings–or the Loch Ness Monster for that matter?

There are many explanations which get to the core of why people need and have mystical experiences. It all boils down to the idea that they serve some evolutionary purpose. They may indeed be there to serve as engines of creativity.

People often think I’m somehow opposed to subjectivity. Nothing could be further from the truth. Subjectivity is extremely important. No two people share the same subjective experience. It’s quite literally what makes us who we are. But we also need to draw a firm boundary between what is inside our mind, and what is objectively real–i.e. can be seen and experienced in common with others.

Keeping this separation is not easy or simple, but is vital to human psychosocial development. And it’s vital to overcoming superstitions and irrational practices. As far as we’ve come from the days of witch hunts, alchemy, and hocus-pocus, there are still people who would like us to go back. Extreme subjectivity expressed in the form of radical religion may yet destroy the world.

David, thanks for your good wishes. But I’m not sure they’re entirely sincere. Couched in your post is a large amount of condescension, attempts at psychoanalysis, and veiled ad hominem attacks on my position.

I’m aware that it’s very inconvenient for CUT members and other students of the ‘masters’ to have a coherent voice such as my own as a witness to the creation of their so-called ‘faith’ from the whole cloth.

I stand on my observations. There is no credible evidence for the existence of ‘ascended masters.’ And I watched my parents manipulate their followers. At the very least, that argues for a reassessment of the entire enterprise with respect to human ethics.

David Tame / May 19th, 2006, 4:37 am / #17

Dear Sean,

Let me begin by affirming that this brief dialogue with you is in my heart a very friendly one. Thanks for it! We are simply sampling different points of view together, right? I have no intent to carry it on at length.

On your point “1� above, have you ever had a deep, life-transforming, mystical experience? You are never the same again if you do. I have had them, mainly in a period as I was in the Himalayas. It actually transcends the subject of “faith vs. reason� as neither are involved. You become a part of the ONE, and you KNOW. Of course, you may call it a psychotic episode, but the history through time of those who have experienced this is there for all to read. It is not blind faith, and it is not mechanical or robotic ‘reason’. You become ONE with Reality. And BTW, I did this before I even found CUT. Such experiences are out there if people have the motivation to seek them out.

Your point “2� on science.

Again, you clearly are unaware of the philosophy of science as has been written about for a century now. There is nothing logical about science. I already made this point and will not continue, as you have the books I mentioned which you could read if you’d like to.

Sean, your point “3â€? on the Masters and on your own experiences. Heck, I can’t reply to that in an intellectual way as I’d love to be there with you right now and just be a pal, whether we agree or not. I speak from the heart. Did I sound condescending? Sorry about that, if so. I just have a style in which I write. But as a friend who read the thread just wrote to me: “He’s a lot like his mom - can’t be wrong! No-one anywhere has mentioned individual attunement as the means testing for truth…’s the only way we can know anything - by listening to the heart and the Presence - and not someone else.â€?

I don’t necessarily agree with every word there, but what comes across is that you can’t be reached. Did you read the link I gave on the casebook of physical encounters with the Masters? All of it? You think all were deluded? I doubt most readers here will agree.

Dear Sean, let’s call that dialogue ‘done’, though of course you may wish to reply again.

On a quite different note, and to add to your thread:

I was on staff in the USA for a couple of years, and served for about a decade in the London TC. I was actually the first Keeper in Europe. (From 1977.) The culture was pretty awful at times, but individually, since in England we were so far away and the USA didn’t affect us too much, we often had superb years and they are one of the high-lights of my life so far. There was joy, friendship, spirituality … LOL and when things got into the “Labors� I kinda unconsciously withdrew.

I would just like to close in sharing with you and anyone else that while I am a critic of some of your mother’s mixed theology, she and I never felt anything negative toward each other. To my astonishment, since CUT already had several thousand members, from 1984 I began getting long letters from her – just out of the blue! How did she find the time for that? She asked, “How are your studies going? How is your job? How is your health, and anything else you want to tell me.� I was very moved. She in that time once wrote a note saying that she was “devastated� since she had dictated a long letter to me (I have no idea about what) but the secretary “lost the tape, and I cannot find time to repeat it�. LOL, no doubt the secretary got the blue ray treatment.

But I would like to end in attesting that for a couple of years, over the miles and over the ocean, she tried to be another mother to me, in the normal (not at all Guru) sense. I so remember that – though I still do see her flaws.

I should add that this episode began when she tried a “blue ray� on me in Montana and I stood up to it. Why didn’t more people do that? It is as though they were going along with the culture. I faced up to her and I saw her physically back down. She never tried to boss me about again, but respected me. I can’t say if she would do that with everyone (!), but it worked for me.

The lesson being: have a Teacher or Guru if you like, but keep your own independent mind, and you’ll come out OK! There was a complicity going on whereby others went along with the culture, in error.

IMHO things are starting anew elsewhere now. IMHO there is a new start elsewhere now, and the culture is fine and wonderful.


David Tame

Brenda Macedo / May 19th, 2006, 1:13 pm / #18

Dear Sean:

I remember you many years ago when I used to frequent the Royal Teton Ranch with my ex-husband, Greg Brinkley. I always resonated with you and now I know why.
It took a lot of guts to print this article. I just wish you had come forward sooner with this information. It would have helped so many more people.

While I was still married and a member of your church, I was devastated when I was ex-communicated for having written your mother a letter explaining politely that it would have been difficult for her to have been Queen Clothilde and Lady Guenivere…since they lived at the same time.

In the same letter, I asked ECP if she believed in “simulateous embodiments” perhaps as an explanation for the lifetimes which occurred at the same time. A few weeks later, I was sent a letter of ex-communication by Gene Vosseler asking me never to return again to the organization. My ex-husband, Greg Brinkley followed suit with a divorce leaving me destitute. He even went so far as to reveal to a judge about a journal I had been keeping, in which I described “visions” I was having of the Ascended Masters. (This he did to try to gain primary custody of our child, Ian.)

During this trial and after years of wondering about my own inner experiences, I felt I needed to get verification from someone “older and wiser” who having the same experiences. I trusted your mother. I pleaded with your mother in a letter to please let me know if the experiences I was having were true, because she had warned us so many times about “false hierarchs.â€? Two years passed. She never wrote me back.

But during the divorce, my ex-husband complained to ECP that I was having “visions” and he asked her to comment on them. She promptly wrote him back (within just a few days!) claiming that they were all astral. Of course, my ex-husband stood to inherit a fortune from the Brinkley family. I realized that she was going to take sides with him because he stood to inherit a large amount of money, rather than take sides with a simple visionary like myself.

I continue to have visions and no longer doubt their veracity. Every single vision or warning I have received has been shown to be accurate. For example, after I had my second son (by a different father) I was sitting in the living room and vividly remember El Morya, walk through the front door as clear as day. He was wearing all black. I was amazed because I had shut him out systematically for years, based upon your mother’s evaluation of me. I thought that El Morya hated me, because when Gene Vosseler ex-communicated me, he claimed that he was “acting on behalf of El Morya.

But El Morya declared to me emphatically that Elizabeth Clare Prophet was no longer under his sponsorship. This was in 1998 around March if I remember correctly. This vision came years after all of the turmoil I had gone through. It was a major validation…but there was no one to share it with. I had been cut off from the church for years and I had no idea of what was happening there…I knew nothing about ECP or her Alzhimers, or any of the other problems in the organization…
It was El Morya who appeared to inform me, in his own way, out of the blue.

Now there are a few confessions I would like to make. I wish to apologize For all the Judgement calls I made against John Lennon and the Beatles. Oh God, please forgive me. I love John Lennon. I also gained validation on this point.
Masuro Emoto ran some photographs under electro-resonance photography that proved that much of the Beatle’s music, including Lennon’s “Imagine� were harmonious and beautiful (producing beautiful water crystals.) In this way, Sean, I guess you and I are different. But thanks for being truthful about your mother.

Take care,
Brenda Macedo
formerly, Brenda Brinkley

Brenda Macedo / May 29th, 2006, 9:12 am / #19

Dear Sean,

I forgot to mention one fact in my last note to you.

In your last message you asked the same question I asked your mother years ago…that is:
how are we supposed to believe in ascended masters when none of the messengers can seem to recognize or even acknowledge one another??

I believe that this problem, as well as many of the problems your mother faced could have easily been avoided.
If ECP had simply recognized the visionaries in her own movement, who were having similar experiences as she was, the necessary checks and balances would have been in place to keep the abuses of power from happening.

There were several visionaries, not just myself, as I mentioned in my last comment, who could have helped in this area.

Instead, your mother made the mistake of trying to consolidate her power, by trying to keep the heirarchy of “attainment” within the boundaries of her own blood family. For example, she mistakenly declared you a Buddha, even though you obviously have had no experiences of the masters whatsoever. This plan of ECP to consolidate her own personal power through her children, even to the extent of getting in vitro fertilization at age 55, backfired terribly.

In the Age of Aquarius, we are all supposed to work together. And we are ALL entitled to witness and communicate with the Masters. In contrast to this, your mother ran a top-down, top-heavy, dictatorial type of organization, which systematically invalidated anyone except she and her own family. I don’t think St. Germain ever intended it to be that way.
That was unfair to you and your sisters as well.

Fortunately, there are others who see the masters and are not controlling. There are even communities of highly evolved souls, for example, in Mt. Shasta, who communicate with masters and are not jealous of one another…nor do they desire a following or a support system.

I’m certain that someday, if you fast for a long period of time and pray, you also will see the Masters, and their reality will no longer elude you and cause you to waste time writing skeptical articles about their existence. Catostrophic illness and drastic lifetime changes can also open this door for them to enter.
I know, Jesus helped me through mine…and yes, I have no qualms about saying that I saw Him, and I love Him.

I pray that someday, you will to.

Take care,
Brenda Macedo

BlackSun / May 30th, 2006, 1:03 pm / #20


Your story is really interesting, and the only tragedy is the ending: I’m afraid you’ve simply traded one fantasy god for another. With as much pain as you’ve been through, you’d think the lesson would be obvious. There is no “divine hand” to rely on. Sometimes the naturalistic reality is too hard for people to bear. I understand that.

But you’ve already rejected many false gods. In order to be truly free, you just have to reject ONE more. Think of it!

“Catostrophic illness and drastic lifetime changes can also open this door for them to enter.”

This is nothing but spiritual blackmail: “When you’re really down and out…you’ll accept god…you’ll see…”

I don’t make my decisions based on fear. When my body gives out, it’s time for me to go. I won’t be begging, believe you me. When I close my eyes for the final time, it’s fade to black. I harbor no illusions or false hopes. In the meantime, I want to see everyone else make their days count by focusing on the one life that they have.

Best wishes to you, Brenda. May you live long and prosper–in reason.

Brenda Macedo / May 30th, 2006, 4:32 pm / #21

“When I close my eyes for the final time, it’s fade to black.
I harbor no illusions…”

Dear Sean,

Your words are very stoic.
When you said, “fade into black”, is that where you obtained your idea for the Black Sun Journal??
Or was it from the idea of you being the “black son”
(in your own mind) of ECP?
You don’t have to answer, I was just curious.

Yes, both major tragedies and major changes can signal an entrance, at times, for the appearance of various Ascended Masters. Perhaps it is because, as Einstein once said, “the problems in this dimension are usually not solvable in the same dimension…” You have to go up a notch. It takes a stepping out, or going beyond the present situation to actually solve the problem, both mathematically, and personally. I believe, that’s where the masters come in, only because it’s happened that way in my own life.

This “going up a notch” can happen in communities of people who interact with each other at a high level or interact with various power points on the globe with powerful magnetic fields, such I mentioned in Mt. Shasta or the Tetons.

Nola Van Valer witnessed ascended masters Mt. Shasta and gave vivid accounts. Norma Milanovich covered many unanswered questions that your mother never touched upon in her brilliant book, “The Light Shall Set you Free.” ( and is she alive to talk about it) By the way, in her book, she exhonorates you of ever having been “King Solomon.” (I thought you’d be happy about that.) She states that El Morya was King Soloman, and I agree. For some reason, your mother placed this burden upon you… but it was inaccurate.

I bring up the tragedies in my life not to point fingers, but to reiterate that even though I was ex-communicated from your mother’s group, I still did not discount the masters and what they had to teach me through their appearances and revelations. Nor do I discount the revelations of other people…who I trust, are sound and coherent enough not to be “making it all up” as you seem to believe.

If what Einstien said is true, that there is no time, or that time bends back in upon itself, then it would not be that difficult for a yogi or a master to punch a hole through time and space to reach us.This phenomenon is just not measurable by us with our limited senses at this juncture in time…
Case in point, Masuro Emoto recently acertained the quality of music by measuring the effect it has on water crystals (which ultimately affects our bodies since they are 90% water). He did this through electro-magnetic resonance photography and thus discovered that water molecules are affected by our thoughts.

Just as you mentioned Copernicus in a prior article, discovering that the earth was not the center of the solar system…it was just a matter of time. It’s just a matter of time before we can measure the issues that you question.

When you do leave your body in your time, I can bet you that you will not just see a black hole.
(All bets subject to collection on the other side.)

The black hole description is not even comprable to what normal people see in after death experiences.
I cannot say exactly what you will see, but I know it will not be a black hole…even if a black hole is all you want to see.
Is it?

Take care,
Brenda Macedo
Santa Fe, New Mexico

Jose Luis Giles / May 31st, 2006, 4:15 pm / #22

Sean, thanks for sharing your story with us.

I believe your mother’s self-deception was a strategy to make her collective manipulation more believable and effective. Your mother was far too intelligent to have lost all contact with reality. She knew she was a liar. She knew the dictations were invented. Still she wasn’t able to accept it before her son, for it would have meant that her whole life was a fraud, and she didn’t have enough humility for it. That is my opinion.

Her constant desire of power, the sex scandals, the manipulation, money, jewels, megalomania, and the way she hurt so many people apparently feeling no remorse, makes me think she was a psychopath.

I’m glad at the end of her reigning days she felt some kind of remorse. That’s good news.

I want you to know that I learnt a lot from your parents. Thanks to them I’m now a conscious atheist. Thanks to them I was able to vanquish all faith from my life. No longer do I live in fear and guilt. Now i know religion is not necessary to define what is good and moral. Thanks to science, history and reason I’ve been able to create my own set of moral values. I costed me lots of time, effort, and study, but it was worth it.

I’m glad you have transformed the negative example of your parents into a positive lesson. I hope more people follow your steps in doing so.

WW / June 8th, 2006, 9:06 pm / #23

Thank you Sean, for writing this. I appreciate the fact that you tried to quote your mother as literally and respectfully as you possibly could remember.

She did not personally harm me, or probably even really knew of my existence as a lowly KOF, her statement to you helps me find closure to an important chapter in my life.

I hope many people that were connected to CUT in one way or another will find their way here, and read this.

Best wishes to you and your family.

BlackSun / June 9th, 2006, 6:02 pm / #24

Thanks, Jose and WW.

RDF / July 17th, 2006, 9:44 pm / #25

Wow Sean,
What a revealing little tale you’ve told! There are a few problems with it though. (1) This is 2006 and it was 1997-9 when your mom told you she felt awful about all the bad things she did to hundreds of thousands of people in her church? Is there a good reason you waited 10 years to come out with this story? Don’t you think it would have benefited a lot more people if you’d shared all this with us earlier?!
(2) Your whole story is laced throughout with pity for your mom. Poor ECP! She DID feel sorry and she DID write letters to everyone. Wow that just makes all the shit she foisted on everyone so much easier to bear.
(3) As I’ve told you before YOU and your siblings are all part of the problem with ECP and CUT, but you still refuse to admit it. You see yourself as a victim and when push comes to shove you’d rather shift the blame on the CUT membership than admit that the CUT leadership of which you and your sisters were part and parcel of. were the originators, instigators, amd propagators of all those lies you say you grew up around. Come on Sean did you never ever use your position as ECP’s son to screw people over and to abuse and manipulate them? Careful waht you say since I know quite a few people who worked side by side with you and know the little games you played inside out:-)
(4) You make it sound like ECP was just misguided and not actually evil. She knew exactly what she was doing as did you father and together they created a monster which destroyed countless lives. EXP and MLP deserve absolutely no pity whatsoever. The whole lie that was called Summit Lighthouse and then CUT was begun BY them. They invented it all. They stole and regurgitated info from past liars including the Ballards, so PLEASE be honest with yourself at least (if you will not be honest with us) and stop perpetuating the lies you grew up with by trying to make all of us feel sorry for your poor little mommie who miraculously came to the conclusion that she had done wrong to so many people over so many years. Your words are hypocritical and they do nothing but make you llok like a fool who is still perpetuating the lies invented by you parents. You know Sean, I have a pretty good feeling that this is genetic. You just cannot help yourself. You simply have to live out the genetic mandate of your Prophet genes and continue behaving as if you know all there is to know. Your Prophet arrogance runs your life and thoughts, while you are self consumed with the frustration that you were never able to become Prince Prophet. Your crazy mother saw to it that not only would the organization implode but that you or your sisters would ever receive any REAL love while she was queen bee. Of course once she became afflicted it was a different story. Then she could show child-like love. Unfortunately even a real vegetable like a zucchini or an eggplant can show more love than ECP can in her present condition.
Anyhow Seam, do you have more stories about your mom feeling sorry about all the crap she piled on people’s heads over the years? I for one would like to hear more about how bad she REALLY felt; especially around those same years in the late nineties, just as she was telling everyone to build bomb shelters and buys guns. Poor thing she must have been soooo troubled and not have a sngle person in her own church in whom to confide since she had trained them all to lie so well and to care less about people’s feelings. Sean, Sean, Sean, how CAN you sleep at night!?

BlackSun / July 18th, 2006, 2:32 pm / #26

Hey RDF, you're pretty pissed, huh. You know I have about as much patience for people like you as I do for the true believers. Which is to say–NONE.

It's pretty clear nothing I could say would please you. It's not enough that I spend countless hours of my life trying to publicly counter the wreckage of the bullshit church I grew up in. No. I get slammed from people like you, and equally viciously from the true believers. It's never good enough. If anything's a genetic legacy, it's the utter failure of both groups to take responsibility for their own lives. What did YOUR parents teach YOU about THAT?

Well, here's the truth. I'm not writing this for you or for the believers. I'm writing it for myself, which is really the only reason anyone should do anything at all. And you know what else? I'm not looking for anyone's approval here. If my writing happens to help some people make sense of their lives, so much the better. When that happens, (and it does, plenty) it makes me very happy.

But what I'm getting from your little rant is that you haven't made peace with your OWN decision to participate in something you now consider to be a sham. Poor baby, you got taken. You should have been smarter. Now you are.

It WAS a sham. But it only got started because there were gullible people like you around to support my parents in their cosmic delusion. Yeah, I went along for a while, but I've thoroughly repudiated it, and I've also taken responsibility for my actions and apologized many times to many people.

As far as my mom is concerned, I consider her admission of fault to be one of the bravest things I ever saw her do.

If that's not enough for you, RDF–tough shit.

G.F. / July 19th, 2006, 11:21 am / #27


What is revealing in your comment is how much projection you are engaging in. Clearly you haven’t taken a look inside and considered the role you played in the maintainance of yourself as a victim. Unless you were born into the organization, you at some point made a conscious choice to be there…and therein lies some responsibilty…( even if you were born in, there would still be a degree of responsibilty once you achieved a certain age and level of mental/psychological development).. No matter how small, this willingness to participate is nonetheless a real part of the dynamic between leaders and followers which Sean refers to. If people weren’t so willing to give up their discernment and self governing sensibilities then leaders such as these would not have a leg to stand on. It takes two to tango !!

AND YES , people such as the Prophets do feed off of others weakness/vunerabilities..and that is disgusting, .. no doubt about it. It is sick. But as long as an adult willingly walks in, no matter how much pain or confusion they are in and hands over their mind/life to another human being, they ultimately have no one but themselves to blame for starting it. I imagine you walked in of your own accord..and even if someone else convinced you to try the scene out, the moment the first affront to your humanity took place, if you didn’t stand up to it, that is on you. This doesn’t mean I hold no compassion or understanding for what drives people to look for,or thirst for answers to the ‘big questions’…Of course I get that and truly empathize. No one is immune from that .. Life can be very hard and painful, and its very understandable that at times we are all more vulnerable than at other times.I especially sympathize with the vulnerabilty of young adults to cults such as these. Even so, we each must take some responsibility for our decisions. That does not mean we are bad people….Nor does it imply that we should not have some real compassion for our own predicaments and pain… we owe ourselves that compassion. . But it does mean we recognize a poor decision. Even if it was the best we could do at the time…,(the psychological phenomenon of brain washing in cults is very real, and not always an easy thing to get out from under)…recognizing how we said YES to the situation, now means we have increased our odds of having healthier discernment, and making better choices for ourselves present and future.. especially when we are most vulnerable.

If you had taken some time to reflect on your own contribution to this as a devotee, ( which again, in no way minimizes the reality of your pain and suffering experienced under the Prophets leadership,) no matter how well intentioned, or sincere or trusting you were in your spiritual search, all your venom would not be spewing all over Sean, who has in fact( have you read this blog?) taken full responsibility for his past , apologozed very publicly and very sincerely for his complicity in CUT, and for any hurt that was caused by his actions..

The pitty you refer to, is not at all what I take away from Sean’s letter. If you read carefully, without seizing on any and all opporunity to take words out of context, this letter was laced with a combination of further apology, deeper explanation for some of what transpired toward the end, along with some mature adult compassion for the humanity of his mother. In my opinion Sean never let his mom off the hook, and yet, he was far enough along in his own development to be able to recognize that when it comes to human behavior, as easy and at times satisfying, as it is to ‘black and white’ people who have caused you a great deal of pain. (seeing someone as all evil or all saintly) there is rarely…rarely unadulterated evil in people. This in no way watered down his acknowledgemnent of her or his own very real abuses of power and damaging actions…rather it reflected a profound understanding that people are complex multilayered beings…It is far more responsible to the truth of human nature, and of Sean to tangle with the multifaceted complexity of this reality. It is more difficult and developmentally a more mature position to hold the tension of these complexities than to simply call oneself a victim and another the evil perpetrator.

AND in all fairness to you, there is a time in the healing process to be fucking furious at injustices one has lived through. Evidently, you are still in this phase, and in my opinion you have every right to be there as long as you need to.. you rightly deserve expression of your pain and anger… beacause no matter how much complicity you had in handing over your trust….these people still abused your trust. Nevertheless, as time goes on, if a person is to continue to develop psychologically and mature, there comes a time when the formerly blind rage outward becomes tempered with an ability to stand back and dispassionately analayze the workings of a situation. It is the mature thing to take a look at what one contributed to ones own victimhood…as I said before,not in a self flagellating way by any means, that just perpetuates a ‘Complex’ of extremes… but in reflecting on ones willingness to participate, therein lies the key to self ownership and freedom to create owns own life anew, with the imprint of the past no longer imposing itself on the present and future. There is a very real liberation of ones authentic spitituality in this. AND everyone, has their own timing in coming to this place.

To wrap it up , it is my opinion that Seans vocalization of some compassion and insight into aspects of ECPs nature and action was /is in no way excusing her. I hear a combination of compassion along with dispassionate observation and understanding of power dynamics expressed here… No pity or self pity (coming from him that is…)..just telling it like it is.


John / August 6th, 2006, 12:43 pm / #28

Wow RDF, I must say I enjoyed your post, and equally so, Sean’s answer.

I talked to Sean recently, as I was busy creating a new CUT forum:
I got the idea that no matter how engaged, he does enjoy a good exchange. But I feel the need to say something in defense of Sean. I am a former CUT staff member myself, but I also draw parallel from being raised Catholic.

Personally, I consider the Catholic Church, and every organized religion for that matter, a cult. I was raised therein, and that doctrine was crammed into my little head from the day I was born. I eventually left, searched for answers for many years, and then entered CUT. I left CUT in the 80’s.

I think when you grow up in any cult, especially one that uses guilt and fear control (don’t they all?), you don’t even know what to question. This stuff is so ingrained in you, from the way you think, speak, dress, walk and eat to the way you react to even the smallest events.

But then, at some age, I started protesting to my parents, because the doctrine didn’t make sense to me. However, although my Parents never wanted to hear any of it, I always knew that they loved me, and I would never be thrown out of the family and disowned for my objections. Nor would they go around to all of my friends and family, and convince them that I was really an embodiment of one of Satan’s generals. Nor would they have my family and former friends chant against me around the clock.

But that is the environment Sean grew up in. Frankly, I am surprised (and happy) that Sean and his sisters made it out of the Church, and with any thread of sanity intact. I am assuming that of the sisters, though I hadn’t heard what their status is.

There was also quite a lot of incentive for Sean and his Sisters to stay in the Church and inherit the helm.

So to make assumptions about at what age one should stand up to such a dictator as ECP, at your own sure demise, turn your back on all the incentives, and walk out into the world alone, I think is an errant assumption.

Sean, I’m happy you made it out intact. And I enjoy reading your posts, those of RDF and those of other persuasions. I wish the best of healing for all of us. And above all, I am happy for my children, Sean’s children, and the children of all of us who did get out in time, that we did not subject our children to an upbringing like either of us experienced.

Ron C. / January 22nd, 2007, 6:21 pm / #29

Dear Sean, I was involved with C.U.T for about eight months 10-99′to 6- 00′ from the very beginning the introductory program ( programming ) things seemed wrong they were telling me what books I could read ( non-approved ),(Sounded like the Nazis) , colors that were bad I could go down the list of screwed up things but it would take up pages. I left C.U.T. because I learned to challenge everything a long time ago and not to follow anything blindly and too many things looked and felt wrong. After leaving I met a very dear person and was told of ” seeing a Dictation on the computer screen ” Two weeks later this same Landmark Dictation (script) was given to followers . This friend of mine has never lied to me and is the child of one of the personal assistants to E.C.P.

L.K.N.Nix / June 8th, 2007, 8:34 am / #30

Dear Sean:

I met you as a young boy. Your mother was being treated by my now former husband, a chiropractor in California at that time. Meeting her personally changed our lives forever, and for the better. I do believe that she and your father were messengers. At the same time, they were human, as were the apostles, saints, and prophets of old. That doesn’t dismiss the truth that was taught and explained through them.

I’m very sorry that your childhood was so difficult for you. I could see how much all of you were like fish in a fish bowl, and wondered how difficult that must be. It’s unfortunate that you’ve now thrown out the baby with the bath. You’ve dismissed the truth of your parents’ faith and possibly all faiths because you have felt hurt by the fact that what you imaginied life should or shoudn’t be, did or didn’t happen. All adults experience such disappointment, but eventually we realize that our parents did their best, and perhaps even their imperfections and shortcomings helped us in our own quest and journey on this earth. I’ve yet to meet anyone who could truly say they’ve had a “normal” life.

I can no longer support the organization without your mother as a guide. I don’t believe that the head people there are really her representatives, no matter how well intended they appear. Yet, my commitment to the teachings and to saving this earth using the tools your parents gave us is unwavering. I’ve also wondered if your mother on some level volunteered to suffer for not only the mistakes she attributes to herself, but all those that others made as representing the Church in its many years of existence. We all have to pay our debts; she has paid hers and more.

May you be healed from all that has troubled you or caused you pain. At some point, may you also once again embraced this beautiful faith.

L.K.N. Nix

BlackSun / June 8th, 2007, 8:49 am / #31

LKN Nix,

Meeting her personally changed our lives forever, and for the better.

Don’t kid yourself. It is a well documented fact that people who enter religions experience a reduction in anxiety and often feel as if their “lives were permanently changed for the better.” Problem is, it works by believing in things that are not true. Children feel much better thinking that Santa Claus exists. But eventually we have to grow up an put away these illusions if we are to experience the fullness of our lives.

You’ve dismissed the truth of your parents’ faith and possibly all faiths because you have felt hurt by the fact that what you imaginied life should or shoudn’t be, did or didn’t happen. All adults experience such disappointment, but eventually we realize that our parents did their best,

If I had a nickel for every time I had that demeaning little analysis thrown in my face, I’d be a rich man. In actual fact, I have rejected faith because there is absolutely no evidence it is true. And believing things on insufficient evidence is a recipe for disaster, as we have seen over and over again throughout human history.

Look, if you like practicing your faith and it makes you feel good, I have no problem with that. But don’t going around trying to pretend you have some inside corner on cosmic truth that came through my parents. I can assure you, you don’t. They made a lot of it up on the fly. I watched things discussed around the dinner table later come out in dictations. You people have no idea how badly you had the wool pulled over your eyes. All because you so desperately wanted to believe.

True believers such as yourself made it impossible for my parents to ever reach a realistic assessment of their delusions. They were corrupted by their power and the members were willing participants in that sordid drama.

I am grateful every day I wake up that I have already been healed from the worst disease that can afflict the human mind–gullibility, credulity, and blind faith.

BlackSun / June 9th, 2007, 5:54 am / #32

How sad Sean that you now think this way. No one pulled the wool over my eyes. I wasn’t desperate or gullible.

Oh, how faith ruins the mind. I spent 30 years with my mother, and you're going to claim you know her better than I did? That you understand better than I do what she meant to convey, when I was there first hand? And you think you're the only deluded individual who ever said such things to me? The gall, the condescension–the sheer hubris of you people.

Save your pity, 'cause you're going to need it for yourself when you realize your faith caused you to waste the best years of your life. Have fun with 'El Morya,' and your other imaginary friends, and their mock battles with the 'entities, fallen angels, Nephilim and flying saucers.' Don't say you weren't warned. ;-)

L.K.N.Nix / June 9th, 2007, 11:46 am / #33

How sad Sean that you now think this way. No one pulled the wool over my eyes. I wasn’t desperate or gullible. Your analysis falls apart at the seams because you make leaps with your own twisted logic. Your mother asked you to convey to people that she was sorry that she made mistakes that hurt them. But then you assume from that request that nothing your parents ever said or wanted to do was real. She asked you to convey her heartfelt apology. She never said that the Teachings weren’t true, or that her intent to help people wasn’t sincere. Again, that’s what you believe, that’s not what she requested. You can believe whatever you want, faith isn’t meant to be proven; it’s meant to be lived.

Stephen737 / September 1st, 2007, 8:05 am / #34

What a situation. To have your mother admit that she completely mislead hundreds of thousands of individuals over the course of three decades. How could such a tragedy have occured in this religious group? Sean, you got it right… they abaondoned reason and replace reason with blind faith.

Each of us has to make a decision about how to conduct our lives. What you want to do is avoid is a term that I believes explains all of this nonsense and confusion… mystic plagued consciousness.

This is a state of mind that discerns things that simply do not exit. Let me give you an example… I was talking to this Christian in the sauna at the univesity swimming pool. He had been a recent convert to Christ (two years), and we talked about Jesus saving your soul, and salvation. I said that it was not true because it is made up. Then he admitted to me that his salvation was based on faith. He fett nothing. I said, ” The reason you feel nothing is because there is nothing to feel. It is made up. There is no way to detect this salvation in one’s auric field or anyother way because it is not there.”

Then we parted ways for two weeks, and I thought how to continue to reach out to him and communicate what I believe. So the next time I saw him, I asked him this question because I knew that he was divorced… Would you date a woman for three months and after three months you feel no love or connection, would you say to yourself. “Gee, I admit I feel nothing for her but I believe by faith that this love can grow, so I feel led by the Holy Spirit to continue this relationship.”

He was shocked at my question because he knew from experience the result of this kind of thinking. Then I said to him, “You are doing the very same thing with your religion.”

And after that I never mentioned the subject again.

De-evolved Gandalf / September 1st, 2007, 6:51 pm / #35

I’m so grateful to have come across this site. I was wondering if anyone has direct knowledge about CUT’s current methods for disseminating their ideas. I’ve been perusing the internet for a few days doing research on the concepts of ascended masters, violet flame, light bearers, etc. There is very little information in the scholarly journals (based on a search in Academic Search Premier), but there are endless websites for groups, in one way or another, dedicated especially to the ascended masters. I understand that much of this jargon derives from H.P. Blavatsky and was then later popularized by Ballard and his I AM Activity. But, in regards to CUT specifically, I’ve read one reply to a blog post (on an anti-cult site) suggesting that their mission has become more toned down and subtle, i.e., making the Ascended Masters house-hold names.

The reason I’m interested is because I have a very good friend who has, within the past year, come under the sway of someone who advertises (mainly through word of mouth, apparently, but also on two ascended master devoted websites: Heart’s Network and New Wisdom University) a kind of quantum healing balance service. There is nothing in this lady’s literature that references ascended masters, other than the clue inherent in the color violet, but I’ve met her a couple of times by way of my friend and received her “balance work” (only to see this garbage up close…$60/hr “balance sessions” either in person or over the phone, $5 crisis calls, etc.), and she is DEFINITELY in the ascended master, violet flame, light bearer, dweller substance, 51% balance, I AM decree, St Germain, etc., crowd. Rev. Karen (who claims she has nothing to do with any organized religion) is obviously of the theosophic lineage, but has combined this stuff with her chiropractics nonsense (muscle testing) and the new New Age craze for quantum consciousness and meditation.

I’m very concerned for my friend. She has told me that Rev. Karen no longer charges her and that she is grooming her as an apprentice of sorts. My friend has been told that she is a light bearer (me too apparently) and has worked with ascended masters in past lifetimes. The more she is initiated into this fantasy world the angrier she gets whenever I question her about it or challenge its quack, pseudo-scientific underpinnings. There’s an underlying tension between us when we hang out now, so much so that if I say anything even slightly analytical she’ll say something nasty to me and start a fight, going after my questioning nature…it’s just my “dweller” you understand… I’m concerned about her mental state, but even more so for her health and the health of her two young children. Rev. Karen actively discourages people from going to doctors, taking medicine, x-rays, surgery…Western medicine in general….you get the picture.

Anyway…I’m determined to convince my friend of the error of her ways, but I’m not sure that under cutting the “science” of it is going to do anything but anger her more and turn to Rev. Karen for re-validation. But if I can make the connection from the Ascended Master stuff back to the insanity of CUT, and further back to Blavatsky’s racist “root race” theories (my friend is of mixed ethnicity: Thai and Caucasion, her step-father is Jewish) then she could read for herself the convoluted and nightmarish history behind the methods toward “ascension” her guru seems to be initiating her into. Essentially, what I’m wondering is: does anyone know of any systematic attempt on the part of CUT (or what’s left of it) to market their ideas in a more discrete and subtle manner so that I can demonstrate, even more clearly, a direct line from Rev. Karen to E.C. Prophet. My friend is capable of introspection and analysis, but is becoming increasingly less so.

I would be tremendously grateful for any insight into this matter or any advice in regards to de-programming my friend.


BlackSun / September 2nd, 2007, 11:14 am / #36


Then he admitted to me that his salvation was based on faith. He fett nothing. I said, ” The reason you feel nothing is because there is nothing to feel. It is made up. There is no way to detect this salvation in one’s auric field or anyother way because it is not there.”

I only have two words to respond to your very good story: Mother Teresa. Faith has been totally exposed for what it is. Self-delusion. Not that we didn’t already know this.

Religious institutions provide official sanction and cover for the delusions. If the Catholic church proceeds with canonization of Teresa, their goose will be cooked. (Well, it is anyway, and it just reinforces the point that no matter how outrageous the admission, they will always explain it away. Hey, it’s worked for hundreds of years, why stop now?) Just think: Mother Teresa, the first admitted atheist Catholic saint. It’s stunning in its audacity and mendacity.

@De-Evolved Gandalf

What you are dealing with in your friend is a psychological break of sorts. Whatever benefits she is being offered by “Rev. Karen” have become more important to her than truth or even her other friends. I’ve seen this many times before. There is a personality deficiency in believers. At a certain point, they just decide that life and truth are just too hard to deal with, and they retreat into the fantasy world. It’s not that different from drug addiction, as morphine dulls the senses and the pain of living.

This kind of faith addiction is extremely hard to break, because the person has slowly begun to leave reality behind. At each step, they have felt a sense of relief as they have retreated further into their denial. Their mental captors seem like liberators to them and they fall prey to a kind of faith-based Stockholm Syndrome–especially when the leader does things like elevate them to positions of power such as “apprentice.” Within the power dynamics of the group, the new convert sees a level of acceptance they might not have ever had in their old life.

So various social self-preservation mechanisms kick in and reinforce the participation in the group. (Social status is associated with evolutionary success, and as such is rewarded by our brain chemistry in much the same way as getting food or sex).

So I’m sorry to say that once a person has chosen comfort over reality, there may be little that a friend can do to stop it. Sometimes a person has to go through a years long cycle of participation before they find disillusionment and a renewed search for empirical truth and reality. But if they develop a following in the meantime, and find their identity (and even their livelihood) in their fraudulent spiritual practice, why give it up when it’s working for them?

It’s tragic, but at this point the truth does not matter to your friend. In fact, you trying to corral her or presenting her with damaging information with regard to the “masters’ teachings” is only going to drive her further into the hands of the group. I saw this numerous times with deprogrammings when I was in CUT. People came back. (The only way it works is if the person seeks out the information on their own. Which is why I started this site.)

So I’m sorry to say that freedom of conscience includes the freedom to participate in willful ignorance, and it sounds like your friend has pretty much made her choice. Honestly, it comes down to her unwillingness to deal with existential pain, and possibly other difficulties in her life. She’s getting something out of the deal, that’s what you have to understand. (So are drug- addicts, for that matter). That’s the evolutionary rung she’s on, and until and unless she decides her true self-awareness is more important than the tawdry carnival trappings of her delusion, she will be lost in it.

I’m sorry man, I wish I had better news. But the path of reality is not the easiest for people, and there are no guarantees of success. Of course I would argue that the rewards are worth the struggle. I’m hoping for the best for her.

M.S. / November 1st, 2007, 4:26 am / #37

Thank you for the information that you reveal here.

I have found, for instance, useful details for those who believe in the Masters and their teaching, like internet addresses of ascended masters activities that are taking place right now, and links to articles that contain clarifications with respect to the teaching, and also other details that I consider excellent, like your own testimony about your own suffering and insecurities, which is good philosophy for those who seek to understand spirituality.

Your own criticism of your mother and father is unvaluable. Also, it allow us to confirm that they were really excellent persons. I believe, from what you write, that you share this knowledge with me, that they were excellent persons.

I’ve been reading what you write and after the initial shock at your denial, I’m starting to think that you are not the “bad” guy you would like us to think you are. For example, denying that there is an El Morya doesn’t make you bad–it just makes the guru-chela relationship a little complicated in your case. As I understand it, your denial doesn’t even exclude the existence of a guru-chela relationship.

Also, as I observe your adherence to Truth and desire to bring about progress through the means that you have adopted, it is clear to me that those thirty years that you spent at the Church did leave a mark, and not a bad one at all. I say, it is twisted, but you could still very well be a chela.

Furthermore, I am under the impression that you are rather in the need to release some PROPAGANDA on your behalf, for a purpose. And for some reason–probably fear–you believe that it serves you better to dissociate yourself from the Church and teaching for now.

I do not think that you do wrong, since, after all, what is required is self-knowledge through self-realization and self-regeneration. And we are pretty much alone for this, so I cannot blame you for your efforts.

To this, I would like to share with you a big detail about me that I hope would make you reconsider the importance of your experience.

When I met my first Ascended Master, face to face, it was in 1989, and I did not know yet about the teachings of Mark Prophet or Elizabeth. I didn’t know what a decree was. I was living in a Mexican jungle. Yet I would meditate devotedly, four to six hours a day. I was completely ignorant that there was a CUT or a young spoiled gringo like you, with such parents.

I only met your Mother in 1993, when I visited, intrigued, because I had since then moved to Canada, following the path that a Master had set for me. By now I had heard about her, and wanted to see if it was not a scam. And it was not: The connection to the higher realms was there, and I KNEW and was able to see it because I KNEW about it. Your Mother’s focusing of those higher vibrations enabled me to tap into the etheric vibration that I wanted.

It is important to understand that had your Mother NOT being there, had your Father NOT being there, I would have met the Masters ANYWAY. So your denying here doesn’t amount to much as far as I am concerned, because, since I met them FIRST by other means than your parents, you do not have anymore the authority or credibility to deny their existence, as far as I am concerned. I hope that you would be intelligent enough to consider that the perception of your attempts here will be the same for anyone that is in my position. As I said, I believe you are giving yourself too much importance. Since it is so, you could perhaps benefit from rethinking your issues.

For the record, I have to add that when I visited in 1993, I wanted Spirit, so I did not stay at the ranch. It was useless: I could do the same required inner work elsewhere, where I was needed. Perhaps I would had met you there, while you were still involved, had I wanted anything less that that higher vibration that your Mother kindly sustained in the physical for all who wished to witness and develop it.

Denis / December 30th, 2007, 6:27 am / #38

Hello Sean and all,
I found all this very interesting, reading on New Year’s Eve, here in Australia…and the reading has taken me away from planned tasks!

I did Summit University in 1983, and then shelved the whole CUT trip, as even then, anomalies were coming at me thick and fast.

I can appreciate Sean’s position, and also those other stances. In actuality, they are all, to my understanding, outplayings where EVERYTHING exists on an infinite basis, as ONE whole and complete beingness. And where ALL IS PERFECT NOW, despite what our limited perceptions in space and time would offer, as “proof based evidence.”
A very intelligent LOGIC BASED explanation (short) by a friend may be of interest to you, Sean (or others)?
As I said, very clever, and where the whole thread must hang together by crisp logic…or the reader is advised to jump off the site. It invalidates nothing or no one and their choices

Who created it all?WE did, as ONE ALL PERSON. You gotta love your own dream, your own script, where all is always perfectly created, even the illusion of horrible imperfection. Sean, you may like to entertain the possibility it was
/is “all your perfect script” created to view the illusions of endless permutations, from the field of “all possibilityness”.
And yes, ultimately, it’s ALL made up, including gurus, science and Santa:) You get to choose whatever you want to make up or believe, so there never was, actually, a victim…seen with ONE perception.
Some very logical explanation on the site above, if you have time for a quick check?
Anyway, all the best for a GREATTTTTTT 08

Denis / January 14th, 2008, 5:10 am / #39

Update on my previous post: the website mentioned has a new url:

Sean …having such an “interesting” lifepath, as ECP son/the whole church trip….to your current stance where fact and logic reigns supreme…it would be fascinating to hear your analysis of the above site. (It may have resonance with you may pick holes. Whatever.)
The site purports to outline with
ONLY sheer logic

…absolutely NO faith needed or required. Diagrams assist the steps of logic.
Somebody who is determined to use only clear thinking/their brain should get food for thought.
BEST WISHES in all ways.

Gordon A. / January 18th, 2008, 1:38 am / #40


I met your mother at a meeting one time only at Carnegie Hall in the mid 80’s. My most distinct memory of that event was getting lightly bonked on the forehead with the biggest emerald I have ever seen.

All I want to offer here is this — you’re obviously a fine, reflective, intelligent human being and your mother, even if only in spite of her actions, must have had a good deal to do with that. I’m sure you know that, but its something for everybody else to observe.

I wonder if later in your life you will come full circle back to faith. Not faith in ideas or philosophies, but just a simple intuition or heart-feeling that there is more to us (or to consciousness if not us personally) than that which is born and dies.

In any event, it’s a strange and wonderful life for everybody. Thanks for sharing your rather unique story.

Gordon A. / January 18th, 2008, 2:18 am / #41


Actually after reading through more of your site it looks like you are not likely to embrace, shake hands with, or even wave casually at faith ever again!

Nevermind. Best wishes in any case. If religious salvation or spiritual liberation do not exist in your observed universe, then may the final mind at the end of time record you and keep you.

BlackSun / January 19th, 2008, 12:55 pm / #42


For example, denying that there is an El Morya doesn’t make you bad–it just makes the guru-chela relationship a little complicated in your case. As I understand it, your denial doesn’t even exclude the existence of a guru-chela relationship.

Yes, it absolutely does. I don’t know how you missed that. And I declared eternal enmity with any and all such authoritarian systems and non-consensual dominance and submission.

If any of that were true, then I would be a sworn enemy of so-called “god.”

Since it is almost certainly not, my enemies are the lying liars who lead the world’s religions. As far as your spiritual experiences are concerned, you might as well be recounting your dreams or drug hallucinations.


I only skimmed the first page of the site, but I’m not impressed by this “enlightenment-based-magic.” It seems needlessly convoluted, and designed to take advantage of the same gullibility that leads people to religion, the Secret, Power of Now, etc. I’m frankly not going to waste time looking that deeply into it.

“High vibrations permeate lower vibrations as water permeates a sponge.”

Why is there a need for nonsense like that when we have an incredible wealth of real scientific peer-reviewed human knowledge that expands on a daily basis? If you want truth, go read a science site, OK? Paolucci seems to have thrown out a hodgepodge of high-school physics along with a chirpy writing style, really bad metaphor like what I quoted above, really bad web-design, and “obvious-Adams” type discussion that make him sound downright schizophrenic. Blech!

There is clearly no “there” there for Paolucci, if you know what I mean.

Gordon A,

Thanks for your good wishes. You are correct I have no respect for faith, only knowledge. If there were such a “final mind,” I would clearly love to become one with it. That’s a kind of immortality I could embrace.

But unless something changes, we have to accept that our puny finite minds will simply cease to exist when our metabolism stops providing them with sustenance. I’m OK with that, since I will have absolutely no awareness of it. It will be that incredible peace that existed for the eternity before I was born.

Our lives are like tiny sparks that flare briefly, and then are replaced by other sparks, and on and on it goes until it doesn’t.

I’m only happy to have had my time to experience a tiny portion of the amazing wonders of this physical universe. Peace.

Steven Crow / February 26th, 2008, 11:31 am / #43

Hey Sean,

Remember me, Steven Crow in the bookstore?

I stumbled onto your site today and read your letter to your mom.

I left the church in 1991 after 12 years of staff life because I had married and had a daughter (Isabelle). I felt that I didn't have time to be a father and keep up with the church schedule.

I never viewed your mom as perfect and felt like she had her share of problems like everyone else. I didn't pay much attention to all the rumors etc. I haven't been active since the day I left although I did visit Werner Zotter in Austin…Got to love that guy! I had so many good friends on staff at the Summit. That's what I miss about the church.

Anyway…I just wanted to say about your mom that I don't believe it's possible to make up all those dictations and keep all the personalities straight and have them make sense. Even if they are made up I think those books have helped alot of people. To me it was always about the words not the politics. I'm not trying to dispute your beliefs just thought you might like to hear my viewpoint.

I hope all is well with you and please say "HI" to any of my old buddies if you see them. Marco,Stanley,Peter Cole

BlackSun / February 29th, 2008, 10:47 pm / #44

Hi Steven,

Of course I remember you! How are you doing? Glad to hear you decided to put your family first.

I agree with your sentiments about the friendships in the church, I have many which continue to this day. Of course, there are great people everywhere.

I can’t say where the dictations came from. But your incredulity that they could have been “made up” doesn’t mean that they weren’t. Also, whether or not they helped people has nothing to do with their authenticity or lack thereof. It’s an interesting conundrum. We don’t understand consciousness really at all, it’s one of the most enduring mysteries. Not far behind that one is the psychology of groups and why they need to raise up and follow leaders who often don’t have their best interests at heart. I hope someday to understand both phenomena a lot better.

I hear from Marco and Stanley now and then, Peter Cole I haven’t heard from in at least 10 years. Cheers to you.

Serge / March 19th, 2008, 11:51 pm / #45

I’m…really not sure how to begin. It’s 2:12 AM on the East Coast here, and I just finished reading the parts of your website revealing insights into your childhood and your family history entwined as it was into CUT. I was led here by the seven-thousand-degrees of Wikipedia as I researched some theological discussions on the figure of Judas in Jesus’ betrayal. No, this isn’t a lead-in to a diatribe vilifying you. I just need to share this pain I didn’t realize existed until I read your own experience. This isn’t an appropriate place for therapy, I realize, so if this comment gets cut, I will certainly understand.

However, please bear with me while I ramble and stutter. The subject of CUT gives me the shakes. CUT took over my immediate family for a number of years before my parents shook it off like a bad disease.

The decrees are what I remember. The thunderous cacophony of the decrees. The low rumble of the beast rising from the mob designed to empty the mind to receive whatever was placed within thereafter.

In 1976, I heard the decrees for the first time as my parents took me along to attend a seminar conducted by Mark and Elizabeth Prophet in New York City. I was 11 years old.

I remember the lighting. Blue and violet lighting sprayed across yards and yards of white fabric festooning the auditorium. There was a palpable anticipation filling the air, the crowd milling in restless anticipation while they stood in front of their chairs, waiting for the first sign of the Prophets. I was possibly the only child there, for I saw no others my size. Everyone loomed over me, and the lighting made the faces of the adults look blurred, shapeless, dark.

I didn’t recognize my own parents. They weren’t paying attention to me. They were caught up in the moment.

I don’t remember what was said when the seminar began. I don’t know how your parents opened the proceedings. I just remember the feeling of the storm’s approach as voices from the front of the room rose and fell…driven, controlling, fervent–


Previous to my parents’ introduction to the Summit Lighthouse newsletter, we had been a vaguely Roman Catholic household. Lip service, mostly. Interminable hours kneeling, sitting, standing, cycling through the motions, reading psalms.

Then the influence began, manifested most powerfully by the chanting of the decrees that filled the small apartment we lived in. We were poor–though I never knew that until things got better–and because we were poor, the investments my parents made in getting the materials seemed overwhelming. We were suffering, and what would become known as the Church Universal and Triumphant would be the focus of my home for five years of hell.

In 1976, I heard Mark and Elizabeth Prophet lead their faithful in the “I AM a being of violet flame, I AM a being of violent light!” decree, and the fear swelled, rolling through my soul and purging me of any desire to be divine or have any contact with God. My parents saw my reaction during and after the seminar, and, without really knowing the impact it had on me, treated me as if I was possessed by dangerous elementals. Whenever I was sick, they would summon Michael’s Sword of Blue Flame to purge the illness from me. Gradually, it seemed that reality in life was being replaced by delusion with the afterlife. It was during this period where my parents acted like strangers seemingly overnight, that I developed the anxiety disorders I still have to this day. It didn’t help that for five years they treated me like Typhoid Mary, a spiritual weakness in their house’s defenses against a metaphysically poisoned world, because I didn’t like reciting the decrees, I didn’t like being on this alien planet.

By the time they came to their senses and left the Church–and I’m not sure how this happened, exactly–there was a rift between me and my parents that we couldn’t bridge until much, much later in life. At 11 years old, I became a reluctant agnostic. I didn’t want to be completely alone in the universe, but I didn’t want to be with the God whose very presence upset the natural order of things.

I make this confession not to belabor the points Sean and so many, many others here and on other online sites are trying to make about the dangers of religion. I can’t answer the discreditors as intelligently as Sean has, I don’t have the education or wherewithal. It’s taken this much just to put this confession somewhere. I needed to get clean.

Moreover, I needed to speak because knowing what I know, being what I’ve been through…Sean is telling the truth about the horrors perpetrated in the name of CUT, rooted in the abandonment of reason. Evil doesn’t have to come from a metaphysical outside source in order for it to be recognized and confronted. When we abrogate our ability to think in order to accept a reality where we have no responsibility but to go through aimless gestures and rituals, *that* is the worst evil we can wreak upon ourselves and upon others.

Sean, thank you ever so much for sharing your story. I will be visiting here regularly as part of dealing with that darkened sliver of childhood I can perhaps reclaim and put to rest, finally, in the hopes of healing some long-open wounds.

BlackSun / March 21st, 2008, 12:41 pm / #46


Welcome, and thanks for your powerful and well-articulated story. I hope you have been able to repair your relationship with your parents. Sorry you had to go through all that.

M. K. Asenbauer / April 5th, 2008, 10:39 am / #47

Hello Sean,

Thank you for posting this. Now I know that I was not crazy.

I accidentally came across this site while web-surfing. I lived at the old Milbank estate in Los Angeles (came with the group from Christian Dynamics). You once loaned me your copy of the “Star Wars” book just as the movie came out at the Chinese Theater.

Feeling that something was terribly wrong, I left the organization as the move to Montana was being planned. I had grown to distrust most of the ministers and all of the people on the CUT Board, but I have always felt that your mother was basically a sincere person; though she was being used and was at times misguided by the people around her.

One thing I learned from my experiences in exploring religion - I have certainly seen first hand how easily all types of people can be manipulated!

I often have wondered how you and your sisters were, I am glad that you are all well.
Best of fortune to you all.

Matthew / April 14th, 2008, 6:13 pm / #48


Thank you for providing such a thorough and graphic resource for understanding CUT. I recently acquired a used copy of “The Chela and the Path”, and was excited about the contents. Now, I understand once again the clarity-invoking words of the politico-religious understanding provided by K.H. (Mahatma Letters) “Ignorance created gods, cunning took advantage of the opportunity.” Perhaps it’s the self-indulgent aspect of our lower nature whereby some of us prefer to act like sheep (non-self-responsibility) and be led while others prefer to do the leading (ends), regardless of the ethics (means) involved (i.e. manipulation).

Perhaps aspects of these writing were truely inspired but it seems likely that contamination by the lower self precludes any serious utility of these works by your parents.

I’ve only skimmed this site, and will look further to see if you’ve already responded to such a question.


Matthew / April 14th, 2008, 8:40 pm / #49

K.H. (Mahatma Letter No. 10)

“All this then — food, wealth, ambition, and a thousand other things we have to leave unmentioned, becomes the source and cause of evil whether in its abundance or through its absence. Become a glutton, a debauchee, a tyrant, and you become the originator of diseases, of human suffering and misery. Lack all this and you starve, you are despised as a nobody and the majority of the herd, your fellow men, make of you a sufferer your whole life. Therefore it is neither nature nor an imaginary Deity that has to be blamed, but human nature made vile by selfishness. Think well over these few words; work out every cause of evil you can think of and trace it to its origin and you will have solved one-third of the problem of evil. And now, after making due allowance for evils that are natural and cannot be avoided, — and so few are they that I challenge the whole host of Western metaphysicians to call them evils or to trace them directly to an independent cause — I will point out the greatest, the chief cause of nearly two thirds of the evils that pursue humanity ever since that cause became a power. It is religion under whatever form and in whatsoever nation. It is the sacerdotal caste, the priesthood and the churches; it is in those illusions that man looks upon as sacred, that he has to search out the source of that multitude of evils which is the great curse of humanity and that almost overwhelms mankind. Ignorance created Gods and cunning took advantage of the opportunity.”

It’s ironic, is it not, that this passage nearly measures the rise and fall of another faith-based religious charade. Nothing lost on the fact that K.H. was the “other” Master not to be channeled by CUT advocates. Perhaps his words from the late 1880’s were too revealing for the context of religious indoctrination. Perhaps we have baby and bathwater so well blended that a highly discriminating and intelligent filter might be essential is separating the two.


Annette C. / April 15th, 2008, 6:23 pm / #50

I understand the”Master K.H.” is considered to be the same “Master Kuthumi” by believers in The Summit Lighthouse, also known as CUT. Kuthumi/K.H./Koot Humi, (one and the same) being a regular voice proceeding from the mouth of the CUT “Messengers”, Mark and Elizabeth Prophet.

I pose that that CUT believers definitely think they have had (Blavatsky’s) K.H. on their payroll.

CUT calls the channelling “Dictations”, which they consider to be superior, purer and higher to every other type of “psychic channelling.”
The exclusivity of these “dictations” serves to steer followers away from partaking of any other information, from other channellers to the works of educated scholars, or any potentially divergent or liberating knowledge.
Nowadays every wo/man and his dog is claiming to “channel” K.H./Kuthumi and other “Masters”. (Pls excuse all the wry quotation marks).

Ayn Rand comes to mind as an example of an individual who manipulated many and created a destructive cult, without having the guise of a ’spiritual’ being for her information. Her followers began by reading her fictional book “Atlas Shrugged”, in the 1930’s, and proceeded in subservience, giving unquestioned obedience and loyalty to their leader.

An interesting essay about cults and Ayn Rand, by the late Murray N. Rothbard is here,

Nancy Couick / April 20th, 2008, 1:33 pm / #51

I found this article after Googling “Gene Vossler”….it came up at the top of the list. I was curious about where/what Gene is these days….I’ve been reading an interesting book about the rise and fall of the first hierarchy of the San Francisco Zen Center, and I remember Gene saying that he came to CUT from there. The book appears to be about the scandals that rocked the Zen Center after Gene left.. but reading it has been fun, because I can see SO MUCH of the CUT problems in it.

My husband, children and I were involved with the church from 1983 through 1996. I worked at Summit Beacon for a while at the end….as one of the highest paid employees. Everyone else got minimum wage, but I demanded $6.00 an hour when I started, and they actually gave it to me. Even more amusing was that for some reason, someone decided I must be staff, and I actually ended up with a blue name-tag for conferences, and got to read the ’staff memos’ when they were circulated. Non-staff were not supposed to read those things, even though they were usually quite innocuous. I didn’t fit in too well, especially when I went to a Temp Agency in Bozeman to hire some help to get the Accounts Receivables cleaned up. The upper management had a complete COW about ‘outsiders’ knowing our business. I didn’t really care at that point, since we actually were able to collect some past-due accounts (approx. $60,000 of free books that we’d essentially been giving away - to secular organizations, like Wild Oats).

I went all the way through “third level” at Summit University during my tenure at the church, worked as a field hand volunteer off-and-on, did extensive ‘outreach’ throughout Oregon, and spent hours sitting in those gosh-awful folding chairs decreeing, drinking lukewarm bancha tea.

I always thought it would be fun if someone wrote a book about the proliferate and absurd things that make up a lot of the CUT experience. Like ‘the Camelot nod’, or how hard it is to get into a middle seat without whacking some poor member in the face with our fully-packed book bags. Or the fact that the field workers spent a whole lot of time talking about non-macrobiotic foods (strawberry shortcake with whipping cream! steak and potatoes with sour cream!) while we ate our rice cakes during a break. Or the fact that if you tried to do every decree that was recommended by an Ascended Master during a dictation, you’d be decreeing 36 hours a day, steady. I always wanted to sit down and actually compile that list, but I figure some other dedicated soul could accomplish that task, using a good search program.

I was around long enough to know that your mother recognized me. And that she didn’t like me, for unknown reasons. I was searching for the Ultimate Truth during those years, and thought that I needed to completely immerse myself in a single path and follow it all the way to the end. I picked CUT. It could have as easily been the San Francisco Zen Center, probably with the same results (according to my read of “Shoes Outside the Door” by Michael Downing).

It felt bad to be told I was ‘not worthy’ many, many times while in the church. I got called on my political activism (OK when it was pro-Star Wars), and on my community activism more than once by the “Mother Church” staff. I thought we should feed and clothe the poor, not just decree for them; that we should help an old person keep her heat on, not just take her to a service now and then.

Once I mastered the practices and applied myself to most of the available studies, I reached the end of the path provided by the church. I left in late 1996, and have since married a wonderfully pragmatic Jew. So Passover is really fun! I like to put on Monte Python’s “Life Of Brian” and sing along on Passover as my observance rites. Yay!

My experiences at the church were largely difficult and somewhat painful for a variety of reasons. Mainly it was because over a period of years, I had relinquished my own sense of self and my own personal self-responsibility. As David Tame mentioned earlier in this discussion, he stood up to Ms. Prophet. I never felt I was in a position to stand up to senior staff. In fact, when we tried that with the Oregon Study Group, we were told to either back down or get kicked out (we were having serious local problems, and simply asked for a mediator or ombudsman).

The Church, they explained, was founded on a theological Autocracy, and if we wanted to participate in the activities, access materials and attend conferences, etc., we had to conform and keep quiet.

We left in ‘96, right before the ‘past life’ readings started. I sent in an official resignation when I heard about those. It sounded really bad.


1. Everyone has the capability of being a ‘messenger’. It turns out that we can all tap into our own intuition, experience and knowledge, and can all make up some great stories. With enough energy and dedication and good speaking and people skills, I can get others tap into my own perceptions. [Nowdays, I do that with volunteer community organizations - Women's prison issues, domestic violence survivors, teen transition to workforce, etc... It's very rewarding.] We were told that we couldn’t practice ‘psychic’ abilities at CUT…. it took me several years to figure out that no matter what you call intuition and self-awareness, what the leadership was doing was claiming that they had the right to practice what amounted to psychic activities Strong newcomers would be a threat to the stability of the hierarchy if they weren’t controlled. Being told over and over to ignore gut instinct was a control issue. Obviously, your dad was a very charismatic speaker. And your mom was certainly willing and able to perpetuate the story, and had a staff that was willing to help.

2. I got myself into this mess. I made my own mistakes. No one was forcing me to show up every day for morning decrees. There were plenty of others that were there, and had gotten themselves into it, too….. and there were a LOT of good people, trying to do the right thing. I hold no grudges. I appreciate the self-discipline that I developed during those years. And I loved the study materials and research on other religions, etc., that was provided. Even though Gene V. pissed me off occasionally, I loved his stories about the Buddha.

3. Never trust a Theological Autocracy. Unless you want to be one.

Sean, I’ve wondered over the last few years how you’ve fared, and it’s good to see that you’ve been doing well. I really appreciated the story about your mom. It finally answered some of my remaining questions.

I’ve been wondering about CUT lately, after the troubles in Texas with the YFZ group. My reaction to 9/11 was unique, too. The first thing I thought was “We’re going to invade Afghanistan”. No one believed me when I said we’d still be there now. My church experience shaped a lot of my perceptions today, and not necessarily in a bad way. I wasted a couple of years, but gained a lot, too. I’m a little sadder, but a lot wiser.

Christina / August 4th, 2008, 2:25 pm / #52

Dear Sean,
Altough I lived in South America at the time of the cult, I was part of it from here. I had friends that were crew members of an airline and had the chance to travel to Summit Lighthosue monthly, and we were a group performing the decrees and rituals here.
One day, after the first year I was into this, some of my friends came saying that your mother said that the Ascended masters don´t walk with those who eat chocolate.
I jumped with my rational and said; well then, those are not ascended masters. Since when does a Master cares about what I eat? Shortly after a month, a new message released from your mother saying that animals were devils creatures, and THAT was enough for me.
I was out, but it took many years for my friends to realize anything regarding the cult or sect, or whatever the name is, to denominate what your mother did.
I have seen so many absurds like people not having sex waiting “for the angel” to have babies. I remember those days and it was completely insane what these people , my friends, followers of your mother, lived at that time. Finally they had to go to a psyquiatrist, except for one, all the rest of them.
I was out at once, and there is still one person left hanging on to this after over more then three decades.
I believe this was not easy for you, at all.
I think you are doing a great job and that your website is great , I am subscribed to your newsletters, and I think that altough this applies to what you lived in your life and environment, there are hundreds of cults and groups like this one, driving people into catatonic robots.

With these people dweling in the planet, there is no way to make a global conciousness shift.
Everyone of us makes mistakes, but when someone cheats and abuses on people perfectly aware of what they are doing, stealing minds, beliefs, feelings and hopes, then there is no such excuse as “its karma or mission” or “they meant it good”. Your mother contaminated the world very much with. She had an undeniable charisma, I saw her once here in Buenos Aires, Argentina and in video tapes as well.

The best thing that has come out of all of this is you, your brillant mind and your magnificent work. Take care and all the best to you.

Amen A. Sigala / August 17th, 2008, 10:51 am / #53

Beautiful and neccessary letter!
Fullfiling for posterity’s sake, highly important and appreciated! It would of been best if CUT had ur Mom’s confesion plaqued at the entrance of the Church Sanctuary and/or RTR entrance. Her confession is an essential part of CUT’s history and world religous history.
Mr.D.Tame are u the author of “The Power of Music”?
Not only did this bk have a profound impact in my life but would explain Ms.Prophet’s closeness to u, being some of her material and Teachings were used in that bk.
My Greatgrandmother while doing the Rosary had an intense “spiritiual” experience, she saw a purple light !! My mother was a little girl and present at the time of this accurance. My mother found the I Am activity some yrs later while pregnant w/ me, of course remembering her Grandmom’s vision (my grtgrndmthrs). The I Am act. teaches about a Violet Flame.
I didn’t have religion, the I Am activity even the Catholic teachings shoved down my throat like I had S.L.H./CUT when my Mom came bk from a California conf. when it was in Malibu. I was 5 then. My mother changed so much and find it so creepy how much my Mom had become so like E.C.P. As I read Sean’s stuff on his Mom, I’m reading as if it’s my own Mom. My mom’s dad is German, so was E.C.P.s, maybe it’s hard German blood that makes them so alike. I have gone thru my own shared experiences and what was suppose to be El Morya, during a dictation by him I passed out hunched over, no one coming to me to make sure I was ok, I had what was suppose to be a vision that I didn’t understand till I told my Mom and her almost instantaneous realisation was I was Peter!! Who according to E.C.P. was King Henry the II AND King Henry the VIII!! The vision was me in a vast empty black space w/ just a massive picture of El Morya, running towards it w/ a sledge hammer smashing it into the painting. I woke up w/ the lady nxt to me staring at me as if I was a leaper !! I was 13 when this happend to me, already suicidal for other reasons, this revealation was a profound but a shocking possibilty I had to pray on and it was confirmed correct by my decrees and continued experiences. These experiences also confirmed the rumors that Henry the II / VIII was Madam H.P.Blavatsky. No one was sure that the Russian writer that Mark refered to not by name, because quote “It wasn’t important what Russian writer” he was talking about in one of his lectures that he mentioned his daughter was just simply a Rus. writ.., not saying she was in fact H.P.B. I dilegently heard so many hours of Dictations and lectures. Never once heard that Tatiana was H.P.B. And before I ever read on Madame H.P.B. I didn’t know anything about her. Till one day during the shelter period someone showed me a photo of her w/ some of the Ascended Masters behind her, sitting the way I like to sit alot, my Mom hated the way I sat for so many yrs w/ my legs open, elbow on one knee w/ my hand somewhat fisted under my chin. Like in a movie that photo raced to my eyes w/ intesity of how she sat !! Later as the yrs went by I find out how much she liked to say Humbug. A word I started saying in my teens to replace shit and damn it. Also H.P.B.’s discust for Darwins theory, a very strong feeling I shared w/ her as well since I heard about his theory as a child, and here I was reading about her dicust for it as an adult, making the same argument I made to my self all those yrs, we are spititual beings from a divine source not monkeys. Madame H.P.B. had a stuffed Baboon all dressed up w/ glasses to make her point. Silly as the baboon looked so was Darwin’s theory.
w/ all of these experiences, the shelter period, gossip, hearing about Erin’s divorce from someone she confided in about it and not her Mother, I still couldn’t leave my spiritual duties, karmic obligations etc. In 93 I had a break down, in 94 something strange began to happen to me that has affected my short term memory along w/ some bizarre experiences that were so close to the movies “The Exorcism of Emily Rose” and “The Exocist”. Having gone thru such an awful exp. as to know what it’s like to loose control, be “demonicly possesed”, feel an irritation to gold jewelry or psychotic angry reactions to religious images, photos, prayers/decrees is literally a Hell I never want to exp. ever again!! ALL HAIL MR.SPOCK!!!
Stepping away from all this has been the only Peace I can find and thinking logicly!!! I have a 8 1/2 yr old who dependes on me to be!! I’m still suffering “side affects” from the “Capricorn Megaconjunction”. E.C.P. for warned that during this conjunction our lives were going to dramaticly be affected by the karmic return in this astrological event. And it did, including for herself. Ethicly, rationaly, moraly, logicly I cannot support some pattern in religous history that just should not continue!!! LIFE IS DOING THIS, LIFE IS MAKING THIS HAPPEN AND IT DOESN’T MAKE IT RIGHT JUST BECAUSE IT IS !!! Life, God, Allah, Elohim who cares I don’t anymore nor should the million orphanes suffering, abducted children for sex trafficing - TOO MUCH EVIL BEING TOLERATED AND UNRESOLVED FOR SO MUCH SELF-CENTERED / SELF-SERVING NON-SENSE TO NOT FOCUS ON THE TRUE RELIGION OF THE WORLD - OUR HUMANITY !!

Amen A. Sigala / August 18th, 2008, 8:59 pm / #54

Forgot to clarify, Henry the II & VIII were responsible for the killing of Thomas Becket & Thomas Moore. El Morya is said to have been T.B & T.M. The experience / phenomenia / hellucination brought me to the confirmation Peter / Henry II & H VIII was also Madam H.P.B. who served & loved this soul she so terribly wronged. This woman H.P.B. is suppose to be the Mother Of The New Age, in her writtings she professes so much love, respect, adoration & commitment to El Morya Khan, it simply was impossible not to accept the karmic dept, reponsibility, obligation and duty I still owed this Master / Saint / Soul / Man. Also Gerraldine E., founder & leader of The Bridge To Freedom who ended her life was suppose to be El Morya’s Twin Flame / Soul Mate ( Yes, because of my intense battle over the yrs w/ suicide I thought for sometime I COULD HAVE BEEN his Twin Flame/Soul mate, but prayers & decrees would confirm this to be or not to be. It turned out not to be so because I was suppose to be Frances Ekey, F.E. was alive at the time G.E.was). That’s when Mr.Mark L. Prophet comes in, in continuing and fullfilling the Teachings of the Ascended Masters.
Dear Sean, did u & ur sisters ever know ur 5 -1/2 brthrs & sistrs? It seems his ex-wife & mother of his 1st 5 kids remarried & wanted nothing to do w/ him. How could ur dad abandon these children of his? Ur mom & dad never talked about this, I found out about it thru the Montana media !! It was shocking, heart breaking and a torment for me to know ur WWII Dad would, could & did such a thing as to leave 5 of his kids and never mention or have them part of his extended life & fam ! It’s something a real man, a gentleman doesn’t do, especially a WW II Veteren, speaking ethicly & honorably of a militarily soldier ! Everyone always loved & repected ur dad more than ur mom, this was true for me aswell. Ur dad is a broken impression for me now. Please let me know the answers to these ?’s as to help me know him better & restore a human love & respect for him now rather than the now shattered Saintly respect & adoration I had for him for such along time. I feel such a pity & embarrassment at times for ur parents reputation now in history. They were very intelligent, highly energtic, caring in the way they new how and flawed as hech in their own unique way, individuals who could have contributed enormously & successfully in the world in so many other ways but thay have contributed in so much else now. Over the yrs when I was still praying, angerly I would tell God and the Ascended Masters that ur parents children needed them & us our own w/ all their hearts, not our parents following, learning & then teaching us ur parents ways, opinion, beliefs as if ( but they were ) raising us instead of our own mom’s & dads !!!!!! As an adult I came to see this negligence towards u & ur sisters, non of us deserved this, we all wanted & prefered our own mom’s & dad’s love & guidance as I’m sure u all had wanted ur parents undivided attention as any child wants & deserves.
Sam, my past step-dad & 1st dad in my life, now that I am in touch w/ him thks to u, keeps telling me not to blame CUT, become “the whinners”. But he and many others don’t understand or get it ! The future depends on us telling the story, the future are the children !!! Progress depends on us leaving answers and our expeiences, w/ the hope it will not be repeated & saved an individual in desperate need of it, that it could be their salvation from a religious madness they find themselves in.
I thk u w/ all my heart for ur time, honesty and blunt courage for coming forth as u have w/ this website and all u do for the future generation’s Happyness and the present generations need for closure to heal & go on to a fullfilling, happy enriched life from the whole experience. I feel like a wise old woman now. A human sister & freind, Amen Amparo sigala

Amen A. Sigala / August 19th, 2008, 12:17 am / #55

Correction G.Innocente, I thought her last name in spanish was spelled w/ an e instead of the usual i. Should know better - latin, english very close most of the time. Sorry & Thks

BlackSun / January 15th, 2009, 5:04 am / #56


Your pain has obviously caused you to throw out the Baby with the Bath Water.

My greatest pain comes from dealing with fallacious arguments and bad metaphors. If I had a dime for every time I'd heard that one… Let me introduce a better one, I've rejected the rotten fruits of spiritual confusion, and the bad tree from which they came.

As for pain, consider this: your existential pain and fear of death has caused you to create an imaginary spirit world which you hold to be true in spite of a total lack of evidence (outside of your own mind, that is). Your fear and sense of powerlessness has caused you to dream up a cosmic protector named Archangel Michael who you pretend does things like prevent car accidents and find you parking spaces.

May God Bless You Sean and your sisters and heal your pain.

This statement masquerades as good wishes, but reeks of condescension. This sense of spiritual pride is the shadow of the "mystic" and is always on display.

True mysticism would admit of uncertainty (mystery), and not so confidently declare the reality of "God" or "Archangel Michael."

SeaMystic / January 15th, 2009, 5:34 am / #57

IntenseDebate Notification <DIV>It always astounds me how Atheists assume they are the highest development in consciousness on this minor mudball in this massive universe.</DIV> <DIV>Its the utmost level of arrogance and ignorance.</DIV> <DIV>Unforunately thats where your at.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Your parents obviously made mistakes that injured many individuals, my experience against structures such as Communism made me aware of what was developing at CUT.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>As for my insecurities, I worked on the sea usually alone. Prioras a young Judoist I trained with the Tokyo police force at the Buddhokan and was invited to practise with the palace guards at the Imperial palace.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Your attack instead of pleasent communication shows me the arrogance that you developed in your position at CUT.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Sincerely,</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Lorenzo Bouchard</DIV> <DIV style=”FONT: 10pt arial”>

BlackSun / January 15th, 2009, 7:30 am / #58


I often don't have a chance to reply to everything. But thanks for your comment. I chuckle about the chocolate thing. When I was a kid my mom found out I had a chocolate donut and I was fined five dollars. Yes, and the vegetarian phase. Though interestingly, my mom was a regular meat-eater in later years.

You are right about cults. When they lost their credibility in the U.S. they began a furious drive internationally. Too bad you wasted all those air miles.

From what I remember, Argentina is a really great place. I was there in 1973. Cheers!

BlackSun / January 15th, 2009, 4:14 pm / #59


Now comes the predictable accusations of arrogance–from someone who just came in with the total arrogance of proclaiming the ultimate reality of "God." A clear violation of the comment policy, which I graciously allowed, though I could have just as easily ignored it.

And of course, the condescension. You pretend to know my reality, and that my philosophy and first-hand testimonial stems from a place of "pain" that needs to be "healed." You couldn't be more dismissive if you tried.

Believe me, Lorenzo, I've heard it all before. This is the typical delusion of the believer, that you occupy the moral high ground. If you know anything about judo, you know that you attacked first. I merely exposed the nature of the attack, side stepped and counter punched. You have no real rejoinder, so now you retreat to self-righteousness. I wasn't nice to you.

I know enough to know that I don't know the answers to life, the universe, and everything. That's hardly arrogant, as you accuse.

So wrong again. But what I do know is the dangers of communal psychology, as well as the dangers of supernatural belief systems. And I know it a lot better than most, because of who my parents were and what they stood for. That's what this site is about, not attacking anyone. But if you come here professing spiritual beliefs, knowing what this site is about, you're going to have to defend your position with a little more than blind assertions. I know you don't have that evidence–no one does.

So I just gave you back a taste of your own medicine.

You can't pretend not to know what you were doing. Just because you spent time in my parents' church doesn't give you the right to make me the whipping boy for your unexamined assumptions.

KRISTIAN BEDIIAKO / January 23rd, 2009, 10:54 pm / #60

FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Just because the messenger misbehaves does not make the message wrong!

BlackSun / January 23rd, 2009, 11:34 pm / #61

You are correct, behavior or misbehavior has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of a person's message. You have to look for evidence and corroboration of the message iteself. I saw no evidence for the authenticity of my parents' messengership.

Bad behavior does, however, undermine a person's moral authority, which is arguably one of the main functions served by religious leaders in society.

Otis / October 12th, 2009, 6:42 am / #62

Hello Sean

Thank you for sharing your life experience with your Dear Mother ECP.

There has never been a Prophet or Messenger during biblical times that was perfect. Why would members of CUT or KOF expect Mark and Elisabeth to be perfect? If we were perfect human beings we'ed probably be Ascended Masters right now.

I became a KOF in 1987, The Ascended Masters are still on the Line, The Teachings are True, and The Science of The Spoken Word works Beautifully. I give thanks and Praise to my Beloved I AM Presence, the Ascended Masters, and Mark and Elisabeth, and Godfre and Lotus and Dearly Beloved St. Germain.

WOW !!! What a Teaching, If we as humans could look beyond our human foibles and those of others and just let go and let God the I AM Presence take command, what a Wonderful World this would be.

Love ya Bro !

Nancy R / October 16th, 2009, 4:57 am / #63

My condolences tonight 10-15-09. We all have learned a lot from all this. The news spreads fast of her passing.

Otis / October 17th, 2009, 4:53 am / #64

My Condolences to you and your family Sean 10-16-09.

Love Sincerely,

Otis Gable

mark / October 29th, 2009, 4:59 am / #65

"I have taken on that role of denouncing faith and promoting reason. I do this passionately."
Props for sharing this story with me.
I firmly disagree with the notion that 'faith' and 'reason' need to be separated, but reading a story like this makes me understand how people going the other way might feel the need. Far better, in the end, to not believe in something than to believe in a lie.
Recently I have turned to this subject via the UFO angle, and it disgusts me to see how many people there are in that realm who wanbty to be at the centre, and are willing to delude people for selfish reasons. Same thing in spirituality of course, which is polluted with misinformation and egotism.
But all of that has nothing to do with the need to separate reason and faith, perhaps reason and badly applied faith might be a better term for me. But in any case, good luck to you, and thanks for sharing.

AmenASHandFree / October 30th, 2009, 2:06 pm / #66

The message is Universal & we all have the potential to figure out what everyone else has in history aswell as today & tomorrow. No one should ever go around accepting the lie the brain has cruely put in our biochemistry - to follow a leader & to do so for a long period of time without question. Nature shows us this everyday. It's an unfortunate part of the programing. U r ur own leader not a God or Saint or Ascended Master let alone Angels. For crying outload ! The brain & ur body is what's in control & in relationship with the functions of the natural world. So that personality u call ur own is nature's to mess with at it's bidding. At the end it's the body along with the brain that's in control forming it's personality's, characters & identity's. Her brain fulfilled her destiny, life outcome. & it's unfortunate she never woke up out of her mesmerised facination with the Ascended Masters. Because her dedication was so committed without question from her own Heart, she couldn't love as she did when she was a child.

AmenASHandFree / October 30th, 2009, 2:18 pm / #67

CONT'D - We all lose that love as children because what adults blindly distroy in a child with the non-sense they give the child. & that is why religion has only survived as long as it has. Evolution of the brain with the Heart has forced religion to change constantly manipulising to keep it's exsistance. Our brain fools us in thinking it's the religion we're in love with when in fact it's only the goodness in it that we r facinated with. Our brains diliberatly r made to function outplaying the story it continues to outplay decade after decade, century after century & it looks like battles r the only way out, whether it be by violence or the voice/word, the pen but anger&fighting seems to have such a part of the illusion in it's change. The anger in fact is not the lie as much as it is the hurt of being mistreated, unloved or loved improperly. & ECP was not alone in what most of us had missing in our lives. Loving security from our parents, community, Nature, Life. Peace & Love to all….

AmenASHandFree / October 30th, 2009, 2:30 pm / #68

CONT'D - ECP was a victim herself. The victim we all r of Nature. The cruelty of Natures ways, masculinity & femininty, light & dark, yin & yang. Life is the one who has hurt us, ourselves as part of nature, our brains as who & how we function. ECP, her brain fullfilled the Biblical prediction of her & her husbands demise. Life is what u want to believe, choose what is love & what is good not what is God, Saintly, Ascended, Masterly. All this is so seductive when one is hurting. That's the danger, that's what makes it wrong, bad, evil.

Paul Net / November 6th, 2009, 8:03 pm / #69

Great Sandy! I make your words Mine! Sean speaks too much! He does not understand his parents work. I kow at least 300 people that found real spiritual freedom because of his parents teachings, and that icludes me. I am thankfull to them ! to me, Sean and Erin are deeply hurt.

BlackSun / November 7th, 2009, 6:07 pm / #70

Paul Net,

If I said what you wanted to hear, you'd laud my \”deep understanding\” of my parents' work and my \”profound spirituality.\” That's called post hoc reasoning, or argument from consequence.

As long as I was playing my \”best supporting actor\” role at TSL/CUT, people like you thought I was the Buddha. I often chuckle about how fast they changed their tune when I began to speak my mind. I guess what you all really wanted was not a Buddha, but a parrot.

Not only do I understand my parents work all too well, I understand the believer psychology even better. Which gives me the compassion to continue to write for BSJ and express hope that you and the others find your way.

Bella / November 17th, 2009, 1:56 pm / #71

Hi Sean,
I really appreciate the open conversation you have started and the experiences you have shared. I have two sisters who are CUT members (sometimes I like to call it CUnT). I am extremely concerned for both of them. My eldest sister is very involved with the church and does a lot of work on behalf of the church. She also has several young children at home who are overlooked and neglected due to all her "service". This breaks my heart. I care deeply for my nieces and nephews who are being raised in such a bizzare and harmful environment. On a second note it is incredibly difficult just to relate to my sisters who are so far removed from reality. Aside from the fact that both of their homes are completely decked out in statues, paintings and replicas of every god, deity and ascended master I can think of, they try to push their beliefs on other family members. My one sister tried to lecture me on the ills of oral sex due to chakra damage…and I was like lady…I engage in oral sex about once a week…and it is GOOD. Furthermore I can't wrap my head around how both Kama Sutra and Chakras come from the same country and culture of origin yet the two can't mix. I'd like to think that those in ancient times who discovered both would have found a problem with improper chakra mixing in certain positions or sexual acts long before CUnT declared it so. Anyhow…my sister has also tried to prevent me from consuming chocolate…and I'm like lady I have chocolate once a week…and it too is GOOD, not to mention good for you…how many studies have been done on the healing and antioxidant properties of dark chocolate. I mean I won't even get started on rock music…although I once had to endure a two hour car ride listening to violet flame chants the whole way…I wanted to bang my head on the dashboard…it was a certain kind of torture. These are all surface issues the greater issue lies in their unwielding beliefs and how those beliefs effect EVERY aspect of their lives. I mean my one sister has a professional job in an office, and wears only brown and navy blue leather shoes. Heaven forbid she be caught in black…and if the office ever threw a black tie affair…I can tell you right now my sister wouldn't be there (that and they might play rock music). Sean, how do I relate to these people? There was once a time where my sisters were normal, well adjusted people who functioned comfortably in society, and now it is difficult for their own family members to spend time with them. I love both of my sister's dearly and it saddens me to see them so bound in their beliefs that they aren't fully enjoying all life has to offer. My one sister is okay with living a shitty existence this time around because she thinks she'll be reincarnated as something better next time…but what if there is no next time? What if this is her one shot and she's throwing it away in hopes of something better. I can't tell you how much this effects me…I lose sleep at night. Do you have any advice or words of wisdom?

AmenASHandFree / November 19th, 2009, 8:45 pm / #72

Bella Sorry, had to remark before Sean…! Tell your sister's they've lost their decency and manners in the name of their beliefs….goodness gracious!!!!!!!!! This is exactly what I have to endure in my memories when I have them…how much we lost of so much of ourselves following the Teachings. I was a kid, I had very little choice, I had to obey, that's how society (ADULTS WHO R IN CONTROL) has raised us to think. & unless the heart & brain have what it takes to be free, it will become inslaved in it's shame & guilt w/ whatever is providing it, the individuals won't return bk to a happy & healthy state till much pain has passed. Life tends to move like this….some kind of right of passage, natural enviromental eduaction on one's own human behavior. We all want Heaven - that is Peace _Love _ Happiness & your sister's are under the impression C.U.T. is providing that. They hurt inside & mend their internal pain, sorrow, unhappiness from this earthly reality w/ what C.U.T provides.

bill flores / February 17th, 2010, 5:13 pm / #73

sean, i commend you for your escape from religion. loss of inhibitions is not characteristic of alzheimer patients; rather inhibitions cause alzheimers.

joninaspen / February 18th, 2010, 9:26 pm / #74

Bella - how terribly sad. What a waste of life. All so the bloodsuckers can feel adored, and get everything you have or may have in the future. The whole "next life" mentality just totally kills the value that this life. The here and now. I have a loved one who is deeply involved iin one of the splinter groups of CUT. I'm afraid hope is fading fast for this person to ever see the truth. Incredible waste:(

gerald / February 20th, 2010, 2:15 am / #75

Thank you for the gift you have given by sharing. I came across it when the encouragement it offered was needed. The pathology by which dorgma prevails over and extinguishes reason is not confined either to groups regarded as cults or ideological constructs from the realm of religion. The federal court conviction on littering charges of a man who started leaving filled water bottles along a trail used by border crossers after coming across the body of a fouteen year old girl who had died of thirst attempting to reach a better life in the US underscores my point. Any work by anyone anywhere toward recognizing, resising and finding a remedy for the universal human vulnerability to capitulating and falling into step with dehumanizing and manifestly inhumane culture keeps the bells ringing with freedoms call to everyone

JLT / March 8th, 2010, 8:57 am / #76

Thanks for sharing your story. It validates feelings I had living at Summit University in the 1970s. I was in grade one and remember watching in disbelief and horror as my mum bought into the crap being served up there. I'm still a spiritual person. I just learned at a young age to trust my own sense. I still feel uneasy when I see a picture of Mother: a bedazzling ring on every finger flashing in the California sun while we were marginalized with so many of the flock to basic bunks and communal showers. The inequality got to me even as a seven year old. I have forgiven my own mother for taking me and my brother on her spiritual journey- I'm still working on forgiving yours.

Alen / March 15th, 2010, 1:49 pm / #77

Sadly, I think you threw out the baby with the bathwater. The misbehaviour of your mother does not invalidate belief any more than scientists faking their experimental results would invalidate science. The inner perceptions of the soul are independent of how leaders will use or abuse them.

I don't know about the ascended masters, one way or another, or how much you mother was self-deluded. But i am quite certain that atheist evolutionists ARE deluded. Does it really make sense that a vast bunch of mineral globes could, for no reason at all, spontaneously generate beings with an intelligence they don't possess themselves? Only a separate existing intelligence could possibly cause them to produce such intelligence. Natural selection never could. Natural selection can work only on an evolution that already exists. It cannot possibly actually create evolution. That would be like saying that shopping itself manufactures the goods you buy. But, just as you can only buy goods that already exist, natural selection also can only select from what already exists. Professor Dawkins and the atheist evolutionists are plunging headlong into utter delusion, and taking many others with them, to the detriment of their living inner perceptions and the truths these can discover.

AmenASandH / March 16th, 2010, 7:44 pm / #78

The message has been said repeatedly in many languages forever. So the message is life's freaking manipulation to keep following it. It's called your brain, damn ugly thing. Just like multiple personality disorder that is what the Holy Spirit & God is, therefor the same w/ any other charachter your brain make's up. At the end it's actuely the different levels of your own intellegance working !!! Gofigure…ha…it's the intelligence of our selves making it all up along with nature making lt all up all at the same time CREEPY & TRICKY ….. NAUGHTY LIFE IS + ( WHAT A BITCH don't mess w/ ******* 's tay mess u up,,,,,,

Vicky / April 13th, 2010, 5:40 pm / #79

Well I really enjoyed reading this. Having a background in the 70s and 80s in Rev. Moon and the Unification Church I was always interested in the CUT becuase it had a female 'leader' and she was American. However it all comes to the same thing - supreme authority, abuse of power and the quite unreasonable position that someone, has way deper insights into spiritual reality etc than everyday people. Their followers give them this position. However I think that Rev Moon's children who are enormously wealthy and never sin, would do very well to read this account of Sean. My last question is, did all of ECP's children get left humongous amounts of money - as is the case with Rev Moon's children, at least his legitimate ones. Religion works best in small groups where the leaders are held accountable to the same standards as the ordinary members.
Vicky in Seattle

Erling / June 20th, 2010, 9:53 am / #80

Dear Bella

I read your post and felt like replying, since sean hasnt. I was involved with CUnT;) from 1989 to 96. If you want a few pointers, ill start by saying keep your hopes up. You obviously love your sisters and family. Keep being yourself.
They walked into the cult because they had needs or issues wich made this seem prudent to them. They are trying to build a vision of reality they can be more comfortable with than the one they had previously. Their greatest hope is you living a good life, for that is the most likely thing to ever make them aware of their error. Keep your refreshing vitality and your honest sense of humour, and theres no way they can ignore you forever.
Be that cheerful aunt to your nieces and nephews. Noone has perfect parents, but the other adults in a childs life should act as counterweights in that balance:)

SICKMAN / August 17th, 2010, 1:25 pm / #81


My father was a member of CUT from circa 1978 until his death in 1983. He was a Vietnam veteran who was hospitalized for manic depression in 1978 where he was recruited and then became involved with the cult in Atlanta. He eventually left my mother and I to move to California so that he could live in "Camelot". I was pretty young then (5 yrs old in 1978) but I still remember the place when I visited him over the years.

Anyway, I hated your mother for taking my father away from me but after reading this article I realize that they were both sick and I guess we are sort of in the same boat. So here is to moving forward Sean

S C / September 15th, 2010, 9:14 pm / #82

Very powerful. I wonder what it means that towards the end of the letter you moved from addressing us, your readers, to addressing your mom. Since she was at that time presumably unable to understand you due to Alzheimer's, it was in fact an act of faith to address her. You must have done this for emotional reasons.

We human being do this, don't we. We posit the other that is able to hear us, yet the other is not able to hear us - or, perhaps, is able to hear us, but in a way that can't be explained. Either way, doing this - addressing the silent other - seems to be part of who and what we are as humans.

Your mom addressed all of these silent others - her so-called "Ascended Masters." Were they real? Could your mother understand you near the end of her life? Is she somewhere now?

Perhaps it is in the addressing of the silent other that we find wisdom in ourselves (or find our own foolishness and grandiosity - or both?). Is the other there or not there? I don't know. I don't know if it matters - but at the bottom of all of this is the fact that we - you and I - are not, in many ways, and can never fully be, rational.

Thank you for making me think about these things.

Burt / December 26th, 2010, 9:02 am / #83

Thank you Sean.

Mike / March 14th, 2011, 10:32 am / #84

Really enjoy your site. I was at the ranch in 1988. I went through Summit U and was told to leave along with two others because we were questioning too much. They put me in a car and dropped me off at the airport. The staff were so out of touch with reality it was amazing. I met the biggest hypocrites I have been around in my 53 years. I remember Elizabeth was "channeling" a Chinese master and had recorded Chinese and was playing it back on headphones to pronounce the words right. I thought if a master is talking through her why is she doing this. I questioned a staffer and was told to leave. They devastated peoples lives. I enjoy yourweb site and wish you the best….Mike

Hugh / June 23rd, 2011, 1:55 am / #85

Thank-You Sean, I do not agree with you 100% about C.U.T, but I respect; your opinion, perspective, and view point.
I don't think I ever got close enough to you to shake your hand, but as a member of CUT I've seen you grow up - I am deeply touched by the letter to your mom - and I feel impressed.

Nick (Pudding) / November 15th, 2011, 1:30 pm / #86

HI Sean

I found your site and this comment thread via research into the Agnostic Gospels.

Firstly, may I say how impressed I am with your patience and candour with having to read through and reply to a large number of people who, despite your revelation, still choose to cling to their beliefs regardless. One need look no further for confirmation that there is no bigger deception than self-deception! Perhaps the adherents dare not admit to themselves that they are wrong or cannot for whatever reason. However, you do your best to remain objective and respectful for which I applaud you.

My personal belief, which I feel has been supported by what I have fond in the various comments read here, is that religion serves to satisfy the control freaks out there, and is responsible for all of the world's problems. There is so much hypocrisy within all major (and most minor) belief systems but the more followers believe in a system the less able they are to see it or even question it for a moment, even to the point of mass suicide.

I am particularly intrigued (to put it kindly) by such contradictions as Christian Scientists … people who realise they they are not compatible, who are torn between physical and theological truths yet try to find some middle ground, presumably so as not to go insane at some future point. But I am not here to attack others for what they choose to believe, these are purely my personal thoughts.

To those who are displeased with you, I say this:

Always consider motivation - why someone chooses to say something is more important than the actual content that they wish to convey. Your motivations are sincere and personal. You have learned from your experiences and it is apparent that you feel some guilt for your parent's past actions and deeds, and that you want to "make good" in some way for what has transpired - not just for your own personal peace of mind.

In closing, I wish to sat that I perceive that you speak the purest truth in your article and replies and wish you more strength in coping with the self-deluded who comment unfavourably elsewhere here. My best wishes to you sir!

Nick (Pudding) / November 15th, 2011, 1:51 pm / #87

Hmmmmm …. if you had studied Judo in Tokyo as you state, you would undoubtedly not have made the mistake of spelling 'Budokan' as 'Buddhokan'. There is an enormous difference between Budo and Buddha!

SeaMystic / November 15th, 2011, 2:13 pm / #88

Nick Pudding,

Have the courage of using your real name, as opposed to acting like a Chihuahua, barking over the fence.   A Hole, I was there from 62 to 65.  I was previously elected as the President of Vancouver’s Judo Club from Feb. To Sept.,  then I went to Japan. Also lived in the Kodokan in 63.


Lorenzo Bouchard

Nick (Pudding) / November 15th, 2011, 5:00 pm / #89

Nick is my real name. Pudding is what my friends call me.
Is your first name really SealMystic?

If I had put my name as John Smith, how would you know if it was genuine or not? And I am the A-hole as you put it … ?

Woof woof!

SeaMystic / November 15th, 2011, 7:09 pm / #90

I work with a number of Guardians of Democracy, if I want your address and name, it’s easy.  If you know this or not, I have a “Ban Islam” World Wide petition which enrages the Muslims, and also I’ve got info on a totally other item, which is in some Ministers of my countries hands, on how the National Debt is developed in perpetuity.  Both can be the cause of serious attacks, in my direction.  If you want to play the game on that level,  our organization members  do not remain the prey, but become the hunters.
Use Wisdom A Hole!


Lorenzo Bouchard

SeaMystic / November 15th, 2011, 7:13 pm / #91

ECP’s son the Sexual Pervert, interesting!  I remember you from 1979-80.  A Hole is right on!


Lorenzo Bouchard

SeaMystic / November 15th, 2011, 9:54 pm / #92

Knowing who you are, has brought back a rather sad memory of you, as a young boy.   It was when your mother returned from Ghana, and she and the family with her new mate came to the Pasadena site. I remember you getting close to your mother, and her new mate sort of pushed you roughly aside, so that he could get to stand alongside her.  It made me sad for you.
I never idolized anyone there including your mother and they sensed it, but the energy of decrees was of assistance. I later invoked God’s Sword of Truth on the whole structure.

After my Judo competing years of activities, due to injuries I was led into Tai-Chi. Did the whole system, joint hands and including the swords.  It further sensitized me, this was a perhaps ten  years prior to going to Pasadena.


Lorenzo Bouchard

Jacks Metelica / January 30th, 2013, 8:06 pm / #93

God can make you prosperous but it is not complicated or require followers. The core is the family, the mental and emotional health of the family and failure to keep faith with the ancestors and the family and spirit will cause illness, insanity and disease until you get it. Small moments of kindness are not enough. Kindness and doing no harm to the psyche of the village is all that is important. When you don't have time for it then you waste your lifetime. CULTS and RELIGIONS are as good as the man or woman selflessness in organizing sustainable systems for people to be whole unto themselves and when it requires abeyance to a single person other than oneself..I just don't by it. I don;t buy you benefited. I don't buy you get it. Thank you for courage to post this letter. Sister of a Cult Leader, Milchael Metelica and the Renaissance Community and Elwood Babbit. Same story and same distruction to many, themselves and harm to to their families. How sad a religion is that.

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Fatima / September 24th, 2014, 7:30 pm / #97

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weRstillNotFree / September 25th, 2014, 6:22 am / #98

NO IT WASNT FOR REAL WE CAN NEVER BE RATIONAL??!!! THATS THE DUMBEST REMARK EVR A HUMAN HAS EVER MADE…! and NOT inLightening at all :O whaaaa…?! as sTupid as an adult can be who rules the world BIG children living in their puFF'd up egOs… so sad. sO wrong thanks to Nature…

Judith / April 13th, 2015, 11:25 am / #99

Hi Steven,
I remember you fondly. I was on ECP's secretarial staff following SU in 1982. Through this experience, I observed some of her children's challenges. In 1984-85, I helped my parents establish a home in Glastonbury North (my daughter was born in that community in 1986). I last saw ECP on a plane going from Minneapolis to Bozeman at Christmas in 1997, traveling with her assistant Claude, whom I'd met at the Vancouver TC in the '80s. When ECP spoke to me briefly from her seat in front of me - although I'd heard nothing about her having dementia, having disconnected from CUT that year - she was clearly showing signs of decline. Although ECP was unfailingly kind & caring toward me & I appreciate all her efforts to create & sustain such a beautiful retreat, while providing a useful spiritual encouragement & multi-faceted education to so many people, it's unfortunate that I endured much abuse from church "hierarchy"; I wish I'd been evolved enough to challenge it. I have no regrets; my 17 years with CUT were an important part of my spiritual & emotional evolution. All the best to you & your family! Judith Jakab (nee Ball)

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I think these lines would make excellent lyrics for a black metal band…brings back memories, thanks for posting.

sharedpurpose / September 29th, 2015, 8:40 pm / #101

well, guys — just speaking for myself, yes i took a few fairly hard thumps through c.u.t. — but i don't regret my experience. i wanted to set a high and disciplined standard for myself - and this church taught me how to do it. i never had better food than i ate at camelot/summit university. when i last saw guru ma — i think it was 1998 in san diego, and she came out on stage in brilliant jade green — i have to say i was totally thrilled. was there some "abuse of power"? i'd say yes — maybe big time. i don't know about the "sex scandals" — so, i just try to steer clear of the controversy. guru ma still has a strong place in my life, all these years later. i still have an altar with the i am presence chart. i have her picture on it — along with a few others, including the true and unquestionable saint Paramahansa Yogananda. Guru Ma was a very powerful personality with an absolutely amazing flame. maybe some of her convictions were fantasies, and maybe she wasn't fair — but there is no doubt she represented an amazing primal force of spirit. the music that came out of her group — like "heartstrings of lemuria" — was absolutely gorgeous. there were hundreds of beautiful songs, thousands of tapes and services that were steady as a quartz clock. 4 quarterly conferences a year for thirty straight years without missing a beat. pretty amazing. so, ok, some people are in rage. maybe they needed to wake up from their dream. cut initiated me with a fierce and unquestionably authentic spiritual discipline, set to a very high standard. that's what matters to me. i am grateful for the experience. Guru Ma, for all your ups and downs and hard-to-understand ways — you were still absolutely awesome, and you put a dent into new age spirituality like nobody else. you've had hundreds of imitators, and none yet with the power you carried. so, yes, "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" — and maybe the whole world had a few more things to learn about spirit. but you anchored the flame with a tremendous force, your message is still reverberating around the world as a very high blessing. no doubt about it. thanks, bruce schuman, santa barbara ca

sharedpurpose / September 29th, 2015, 9:01 pm / #102

well — don't tell me there is no such thing as "entities" — or those little devils with pitchforks. yes, maybe those forces are anthropocentric animations of energies that could be understood in other terms as force vectors. but "wedges" — as they were often called in cut? yes, they exist. the human personality is layers of energy sheaths, held in an "alignment" — and the tuning of that alignment creates the spiritual flow channels in the human body. bad habits are associated with wedges or fractures in the aura. that is not a fantasy. it more or less just a fact of human energy and spirit. don't have to be a "believer" to get this. just have a good sense of spiritual psychology and have read a few good books — like "variety of religious experience" by william james

Michele / March 24th, 2016, 1:28 pm / #103

Hi Sean,

I did not meet your mother when she was alive but I read a couple of her books years ago. Unfortunately, she was very misguided. I am sorry you had to suffer so much psychologically in your formative years. I am disappointed by the vitriolic, judgmental and vindictive responses you have received in response to your honesty. These people are supposedly "SPIRITUAL." This is preposterous. Always keep in mind that there are people in this world who are followers and will implicitly what another person says even if you present them with irrefutable proof that what they believe cannot possibly be true. People like this do not research or think logically and independently.

I am a Reform Jew by choice and my husband is an atheist. I and my husband both enjoy Richard Dawkins books as well as Stephen Hawking's books and Neil de Grasse Tyson's books. That having been said I am a student of Kabbalah. As a Jew, I am more interested in the actions of other people as opposed to their beliefs.

Again, thank you for your candor.


am a Reform Jew and a student of Kabbalah. My husband is an atheist and an avid reader of Richard Dawkin's books.

Ron / May 21st, 2016, 8:30 pm / #104

Hey Sean, it is 2016 now and I just read your post and this reply and your reply to it.
I was a staff member at SL for years, worked in the shipping department, and had my good and bad times at SL. Mostly good. Wondering at times what the hell was going on.
I wrote a letter to your mom when I resigned from staff and SL. I got back a reply from someone else.
Reading this post , I guess is the reply I always needed. From your mom, so thanks for posting it.
It helps to deal with some lingering pain I did not realize I had.
And you are right , it took two to tango in this cosmic delusion. Moving on.

RCA / May 21st, 2016, 8:34 pm / #105

Hey Sean, it is 2016 now and I just read your post.
I was a staff member at SL for years, worked in the shipping department, and had my good and bad times at SL. Mostly good. Wondering at times what the hell was going on.
I wrote a letter to your mom when I resigned from staff and SL. I got back a reply from someone else.
Reading this post , I guess is the reply I always needed. From your mom, so thanks for posting it.
It helps to deal with some lingering pain I did not realize I had.
And you are right , it took two to tango in this cosmic delusion. Moving on.

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