Article

Growing up Religious

The Hellbound Alleee show:
SHOW #109 Growing up Religious
guest : Sean Prophet
Length: 1 hour

To save entire file, right-click here. To hear the section regarding "growing up religious," start at about 20 minutes into the program. (Must wait for file to load…) Sean Prophet talks about some of the rules and regulations for teenagers, CUT cosmology, the second death, and the time the entire church high school had its radios and cassette players confiscated. (HINT: the kids were listening to rock music.)

Show begins with about 20 minutes of discussion on the Georgia state legislature’s resolution commending Mel Gibson for making the film "The Passion of the Christ." Then we move on to the travesty of science being perpetrated by Francis Collins, head of the U.S. Human Genome Project. Collins is publishing a book later this year in which he will claim cracking the genome gave him a “glimpse at the workings of God.” Shame on him for this ridiculous publicity stunt. Talk about a quick way to flush a lifetime of scientific credibility!


Comments (16 comments)

Aaron Kinney / June 21st, 2006, 9:37 am / #1

This is excellent! :D

João P. / June 21st, 2006, 10:41 am / #2

What’s the mean of all of this Sean?

Sean, the Masters knew you once, beautiful and wise. Do not look at human mistakes but look at Divine Destiny. It’s hard for you to stand against the Masters, but it’s your freewill.
Your story reminds me the movie of Star Wars…think about that movie and the direction you are taking. There is yet time to think and to move on.

Hopefully,

João (Portugal)

BlackSun / June 21st, 2006, 3:05 pm / #3

“Divine Destiny”?

So, Joao, what is YOUR opinion of divine destiny, and how do you know? Who or what is ‘god’ anyway?

I can’t believe the sheer number of gullible people who are willing to take the words of another human being as if they were GOD’S words. Who verifies or checks what you believe? What evidence do you have that any given sacred text came from anywhere besides its human author? What makes you believe one sacred text, and not another? Why worship Mohammed, or Jesus, and not Zoroaster or Minerva? Oh, let me guess: You just “feel it”, you just “know.”

Star Wars was full of intrigue and betrayal. Especialy Episode III. All the powers of the ‘force’ couldn’t stop the characters from being human. There’s a lesson there, I think. But even so, it’s a simple comic-book fairy tale. Just like the bible, (much better executed, of course), Star Wars is simply another work of fiction.

You’ve got a brain, Joao, and powers of observation. Why did you abdicate all those for someone’s fairy tale? Think for yourself, man! There’s a nearly infinite natural universe just waiting for people like you to get their heads out of the clouds and discover it. I hope you figure it out, (while you’re still breathing). May you live long and prosper in reason.

João P. / June 22nd, 2006, 5:14 am / #4

Sean, who will belives in you if you are defending imorality? Who can say you tell the Truth about Mother? Should someone belive in you? You not only left Church Universal and Triumphant but you say that you stopped to belive in God. Who can belive in you when you don’t belive in God? Only ignorants. That’s right, only ignorants.

Maybe you had some disapointment, that’s not out of question, it can well be. But think, Mother was ill in the moment she said that she made many mistakes and abused people sexually, it can well be her mistake with some of her past lifes..you know that the disease Mother has gave confusion and who can tell you the psichologist didn’t hipnotize her?. She could well thought that it was real and said that to you because she is humble. And why she didn’t say that before? Why only when she was ill?

I am not saying with this that she is perfect, I am telling you to think about such posibilities. Her duty was to be a Messenger of God, she did it very well, you know her dedication. You blame her for what?

You are facing a big test Sean, TRY to think with heart once again, it’s not so dificult. You knew well the way forces of darkness use us. Sean I read some of your articles. You were a beautiful and wise son of Mark and Elizabeth Prophet, there is time to change and to return to the Path because the seed is yet within you. Yet, time is short.

The movie Star Wars in not only fiction, it’s an example of what happened when fear and pride take dominion over the soul insted of the Christ Self.

Hopefully,

João P. Valdez

João P. Valdez / June 22nd, 2006, 5:25 am / #5

Sean , you asked me: ”So, Joao, what is YOUR opinion of divine destiny, and how do you know? Who or what is ‘god’ anyway?”

Divine destiny – is the Path of brave men and women who gaze their atention upon reality.

– God is known by you when you submit your will to God’s Will. You will never know it till that time.

I can’t believe the sheer number of gullible people who are willing to take the words of another human being as if they were GOD’S words. Who verifies or checks what you believe?

– You have an head to think but you also have a heart to feel, there are things that human reason cannot understand. You will never understand till you belive that God lives in your heart and live that reality and forget the things of the world.
Being a child once again Sean.

You can say this is unlogical yet the Truth remains logical to simple hearts.

Hopefully,

João P. Valdez

BlackSun / June 22nd, 2006, 9:02 am / #6

Joao, you are truly lost. I’m sorry. We have nothing to discuss.

João P. Valdez / June 22nd, 2006, 9:58 am / #7

Ok. Do what you will. That’s your freewill. It’s indeed sad but I think I have nothing more to say to you for the moment.

Hopefully,

João

Peggy Napier / June 22nd, 2006, 10:10 am / #8

Sean,

I find it interesting that when someone says something that you don’t know how to address, you call them lost. João is correct. God cannot be discovered through your human means or senses, you have to be willing to swallow your pride and submit in order to contact God. You said to me that you want proof observed by many people which is irrefutable. That kind of proof does not exist for much of anything. Even things you consider real. For example, do you believe in the Darwinian Theory of evolution? If so, you are as gullible as anyone else who believes this nonsense. My opinion! It is also a fact that this is only a theory which cannot be proven and that there are many in the scientific community who can blow holes in this theory. Yet many atheist continue to embrace it as their god of sorts. And clearly you also believe that we should take God out of schools because there is no “evidence” for Him. Likewise we should not force nonsense down our childrens’ throats such as Darwin’s nonsense. But I bet you won’t agree with that. Atheism has one end and as I see it you support that end. That is the total removal of God from this planet. You do not respect anyone who does not believe as you do and contrary to what you have said, you do not want them to be able to believe it or practice their beliefs. Your whole ideology is hypocritical and contradictory.

Peggy

BlackSun / June 22nd, 2006, 10:59 am / #9

Peggy,

‘god’ is a completely human creation, which you seem to swallow blindly. And you just can’t stand the fact that others aren’t willing to join in your evidence-ignoring, book-burning, reason-crushing frenzy. The concept has caused nothing but death and destruction throughout history. So, yes, I do support its total removal from the planet.

“you have to be willing to swallow your pride and submit in order to contact God”

Do I have to put on handcuffs and a leather collar? Or is it enough to simply switch off my brain?

“contrary to what you have said, you do not want them to be able to believe it or practice their beliefs”

No, Peggy, I don’t want to pass laws against religion like xians and islamists seek to do in support of theirs. You should be legally free to worship whatever fairy-tale imaginary creation you wish (in the privacy or your own home, worship hall or whatever). I support you in that. But that doesn’t mean I have to refrain from calling you on your bullshit when you seek to make your sweeping ontological claims for everyone else. As John Lennon said “god is a concept by which we measure our pain.”

Here’s to a bright, godless future ;-)

Peggy Napier / June 22nd, 2006, 1:12 pm / #10

Sean,

I noticed you didn’t bother to respond to my reasoning about the fact that the Darwinian Theory of evolution is just a theory and it cannot be proven either. You did not bother answering whether or not you believe this nonsense. Interesting.

Peggy

BlackSun / June 22nd, 2006, 3:06 pm / #11

Darwin’s theory has been well proven by people far smarter than me. Peggy, as I said several days ago, we have nothing meaningful to say to each other. So you’re essentially grandstanding. Why don’t you take your god belief somewhere more hospitable? Or are you trying to build up cosmic brownie points by defending the faith and speaking out against the evil apostate?

João P. Valdez / June 22nd, 2006, 3:43 pm / #12

”Notice the passage “I was me, but now he’s gone.â€? How often do you hear people going from the first to the third person in the same sentence? By this statement, the vocalist (and anyone who sings along) merges with the suicide entity and loses his own identity. “I was me, but now he’s goneâ€?—who’s he? The disassociated self. The person is saying, “I used to be me, but the me that I was—now he’s gone.â€? But it’s the suicide entity that has now displaced the I that used to be the self; and the entity says now he’s gone and only I am here occupying this body.”- by Sean Prophet September 6, 1987 comenting a song by Metalic.

How this is true Sean,

Hopefully,

João

BlackSun / June 22nd, 2006, 4:04 pm / #13

Words of a deluded religious lunatic. Which I was then, and you are now.

Let me be clear. I completely disavow the entire premise I put forth in that lecture. And I apologize to Metallica, and all other talented musicians I insulted.

By the way, you might be interested to know that my three sons are all rock musicians–and one of their big influences has been Metallica. My son Lars does a great rendition of the song I was talking about “Fade to Black” on his guitar. I couldn’t be a prouder father!

In 1987, aside from being 23 years old, I was under the influence of a totalistic religious belief system. I was fulfilling a political imperative to denounce music I had formerly appreciated. Such is the burden that came along with becoming a minister in CUT. It was a false premise, and arguing from result. But I had to toe the party line. Personally, I think religions denounce music and other cultural expressions because they can’t stand up to the competition for minds and hearts.

So have I said enough Joao? Here: I’ll say it again just to make sure: I was playing a role. It was a huge mistake. I disavow that entire baseless critique. And I wholeheartedly support human freedom of expression in all forms, musical and otherwise.

I also support the right of an individual to commit suicide.

And you can quote me on that!

Aaron Kinney / June 23rd, 2006, 9:02 am / #14

Holy crap Peggy and Joao,

You two will stop at nothing to squeeze your imaginary friend into the picture wont you?

Blind submission to something that you admit cannot be observed or evidenced to exist?

Blind belief in something BECAUSE of its unsupportability, as if unsupportability were some kind of virtue?

What other impossible-to-support ideas do you have blind belief in? The belief that the sun will rise in the West tomorrow? Or maybe you believe that your morning breakfast cereal will come to life and start dancing? Or maybe you have an imaginary friend like in that movie Drop Dead Fred?

Blind belief in something BECAUSE of its unsupportability is the height of erroneous and backward thinking.

I applaud Sean for standing firm on his ground and his principles! He is showing much more honest integrity in regards to respect for the truth, than you two can ever hope to understand.

Your minds are lost to the mental virus of subjective third-party nihilism.

João P. Valdez / June 23rd, 2006, 10:21 am / #15

Ok. Freewill gave us the oportunity to choose second death, the death of the Soul. And you Sean saw many miracles, your pride now blinds your soul and you deny them. People in a downward spiral can see the obvious Truth and not recognize that Truth because of pride. Pride blinds the soul. Who are you lying? Till you bend the knee there is no hope for you.And I am sorry for you, because you too are loved by God. Maybe it’s hard to remember now, that’s normal now that you forgot the meaning of life and embraced the carnal mind and it’s ramifications (rock music, right for suicide, atheism, aproval of sexual depravation). It’s so obvious that even a simple child can see that you are going wrong. We have so much to learn with children that are not contaminated by world’s ways.

In your human ”logic” can you explain that my brother and other children remember heaven? Can you explain the Faith of a child that trusts in God since the moment he or she was born? I think you will tell it’s the society. If it’s so I have to say to you, it’s your engament in the ways of the world that made you the false person you are now. Of course you think you are more real now, you live in this world and you are so engaged in the world’s ways that you think that there is no other. But I say to you, look up to the sky and think were you are going, what’s the reason of life?

I will post here the most beautiful poem I know about Life.

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw232.html

(by Longfellow)

Hopefully,

João

BlackSun / June 23rd, 2006, 10:38 am / #16

Joao and Peggy. You’ve had your say. And let me sum up here that the only thing you have to offer is fear and conjecture. I don’t fear some imaginary ‘second death.’ (What a tired and obvious manipulative fearmongering ploy THAT concept is!) Second death, my ass: “god loves you, but he’s going to extinguish your soul if you don’t submit to him!”

I don’t really even fear normal death. I obviously don’t want it to be painful or violent. Other than that, it’s irrelevant. The only thing that matters is living the one life that we have. When it’s over, IT’S OVER. What has come out here is simply a manifestation of your own fear of death. And you seem to be incensed that I don’t share your fears. The more I assert my position, the stronger you wave your sky-fairy-bogeyman in my face as if to say “you’ll see, you’ll see, and you’ll be sorry you didn’t see it my way.” You don’t have any other way of dealing with your lack of evidence than through threats by proxy. And I might add that if you were clear about the rightness of your own beliefs, then you would have no stake whatsoever in changing mine. The vehemence of your responses only reveals your own insecurity.

Please see “Murdering the Apostate” for a discussion of this psychopathology:

http://www.blacksunjournal.com/religion/147_murdering-the-apostate_2006

And no, Joao, I did not see any miracles. Miracles are impossible because they violate the laws of the universe. Such beliefs devalue scientific inquiry. Any afterlife belief simply devalues the here and now. In that interest, I am asking the two of you to stop commenting where you are obviously not welcome. Joao, I don’t need an entire Longfellow poem posted in my comments section. I have changed it to a link. Go read whatever poetry moves you, but do it in private!

You two are classic examples of CUT zealots. People like you are part of the reason I started this journal. I was tired of the rampant spiritual garbage I’d been spoonfed my entire life, and that throngs of believers accepted as gospel. Ironically, your extremism makes you immune to argument. But people whose minds are still functioning will see the obvious insanity and run far, far, away from you. You’ve said enough. My point has been eminently proven through your own words. From now on, I’m simply deleting your comments as you are clearly only interested in grandstanding and proseletyzing. You have been warned.

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