Article

Dalai Lama Slams Sex in Post-Hoc Rationalization

Sex invariably spells trouble, says Dalai Lama

The Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual and temporal leader, on Friday said sex spelt fleeting satisfaction and trouble later, while chastity offered a better life and "more freedom."

"Sexual pressure, sexual desire, actually I think is short period satisfaction and often, that leads to more complication," the Dalai Lama told reporters in a Lagos hotel, speaking in English without a translator.

He said conjugal life caused "too much ups and downs.’

"Naturally as a human being … some kind of desire for sex comes, but then you use human intelligence to make comprehension that those couples always full of trouble. And in some cases there is suicide, murder cases," the Dalai Lama said.

He said the "consolation" in celibacy is that although "we miss something, but at the same time, compare whole life, it’s better, more independence, more freedom."

Considered a Buddhist Master exempt from the religion’s wheel of death and reincarnation, the Dalai Lama waxed eloquent on the Buddhist credo of non-attachment.

"Too much attachment towards your children, towards your partner," was "one of the obstacle or hindrance of peace of mind," he said. 

What would we expect a celibate religious leader to say about those who made different choices? That his way was better, of course. Couldn’t he be content without having to devalue others’?

It’s highly predictable that those who cling to their notions about the spirit world are quick to condemn what they view as the inferior pleasures of the flesh. But for those of us who are actually living–sex, partnership and children represent not just the height of fulfillment–but include the full range of what’s possible to experience. It’s not EITHER sex, family, children OR a life of spirituality. It’s AND. Which doesn’t devalue meditation, learning, or any other human or ‘spiritual’ pursuit.

"Spiritual" people should stop trying to represent their way as the only way or the best way. I find it disingenuous and hostile for those who purvey the immaterial to devalue the strongest pillars of material life–which represent not only essential continuity–but also our best attempts to navigate the maze of conflicts, struggles and rewards life brings.

The Dalai Lama’s statement is equivalent to sitting on the sidelines saying: "that game looks too stressful for me, so I think I’ll just declare it irrelevant and my team the winner."

Khalil Gibran has a much better take:

When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.

All these things shall love do unto you
that you may know the secrets of your heart,
and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life’s heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only
love’s peace and love’s pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness
and pass out of love’s threshing floor,
Into the seasonless world where you
shall laugh, but not all of your laughter,
and weep, but not all of your tears.

It doesn’t take a Dalai Lama to know that love is hard and love is not all about pleasure. But to make a categorical statement that it invariably spells trouble?

Lots of people revere the Dalai Lama, and over the years I have found him admirable in many ways. I met him in Dharamsala when I was six years old–having no idea of his significance. I later came to respect his views on meditation and the primacy of science. But with this interview, he has just exposed his shadow to all of us. He has shown himself to be closer to the position of a Pope than what I had come to think of as an evolved humanist. I’m disillusioned and very sad he would lend his voice to the age-old sex-negative religious funeral dirge.

This is what the Dalai Lama has now demonstrated with certainty: because it declares interior warfare on humanity’s strongest impulse, long-term celibacy breeds bitterness and warps the mind. It leads to inescapable regret.

I shudder to think what it would be like to inhabit the world where we laugh, but not all of our laughter, and weep, but not all of our tears. I utterly reject that notion. I choose to live the full catastrophe!


UPDATE: Seems old Dalai has been up to his sex-negative tricks for a while now:


Comments (49 comments)

null / November 29th, 2008, 7:41 am / #1

too much ups and downs

Dalai Dan made a funny! :-)

Peter / November 29th, 2008, 9:09 pm / #2

Man, what a fuck….clueless in his ball less exile, he doesn’t get it that conjugal relationship isn’t all about sex – it is about that too – but about the “way” – since that path is a buddhist mantra, isn’t it – through life in togetherness. Not for everybody, dear lamy, it requires guts, inventiveness, patience, understanding, patience, love, forgiveness to oneself and the partner. acceptance of the other, patience, to create a life together. Not for a weakling monk, to stick mit out for thirtyfive years now – and still going strong.

If you think it is tough – you are right, little monk, but it is immensely rewarding, more rewarding to me then retreating in ones own cavernous brain and searching for “peace of mind” – that is for the dead, braindead living ones included.

BlackSun / December 1st, 2008, 8:59 am / #3

@Null and Peter, I did some checking around and found the Dalai Lama has been at this prudish game for a while now. Check out the added video clip. Somehow, unlike the Pope, he managed to keep an “enlightened” image. Guess he has better PR.

bulldada / December 1st, 2008, 9:55 pm / #4

The Dali Lama is also a notorious racist and “sleeps naked with the children in the same bed” according to his biographer.

Alex / December 2nd, 2008, 9:43 am / #5

I think the article exhibits incredible misunderstanding and many false assumptions. This is evidenced by the author’s use of the poem by Khalil Gibran. I initially thought it was a post by someone who was disagreeing with the author!! I’m sure others may have noticed but the poem does’nt speak about sex, its about the love of God!!! a love the poet acknowledges can be extremly difficult and the same love pursed by monks and saints in there search for God or enlightenment!! This poem could easily be about following Jesus!! or even the celibate example of the Dalai lama!!
“Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.”
. Monks and others who take vows of celibacy don’t believe sex is an inherantly “evil” activity, but, as in the dalai lama’s case, they see its potential to confuse the pursiut of an uncoditional love, they acknowledge that sex is natural and the Dalai Lama has even stated that it doesnt make sense for everyone to be celibate!! humanity would die and he himself would’nt have been born!! he doesnt present his way as the best way as the author suggests but was most likely answering a question from a reporter such as why are you celibate? anyway…I respect someones choice to use celibacy as a tool for spiritual growth, it of course has to be undogmatic or you’ll end up with childmolesters like the Catholic Church. it should be a choice. Try not having sex with your partner for awhile and see if you still like them, this is a glimpse of a deeper love. whew glad thats off my chest i hope i speak for others who feel the same.

BlackSun / December 2nd, 2008, 11:13 am / #6

Alex,

the poem does’nt speak about sex, its about the love of God!!!

Your interpretation. I see it as talking about the full range and difficulty of human love, which includes sex. I used to read that poem when I was a minister as I was performing weddings. Everyone understood we were talking about the marital relationship.

Monks and others who take vows of celibacy don’t believe sex is an inherantly “evil” activity, but, as in the dalai lama’s case, they see its potential to confuse the pursiut of an uncoditional love,

Unconditional love is a naive fiction. Humans are self-interested organisms. They also contain a measure of empathy–but those signals are not as strong as those for self-protection and advancement. Healthy relationships are (or should be) transactional. Later, there is the possibility of some conditions being removed–such as when someone continues to care for a sick partner or make other grave sacrifices. But the willingness to sacrifice is the direct result of the power of promises given and received by the partners. Trust is built over time, so there is a “bank” to draw on when sacrifice is required. Sometimes that can bind people together even more strongly. But it also risks slipping over the edge of pathology and self-effacement. It’s a fine line–hence the poem. In this arena lies some of the most difficult human psychological work. Work the Dalai Lama has devalued with his prudish stance.

I respect someones choice to use celibacy as a tool for spiritual growth, it of course has to be undogmatic or you’ll end up with childmolesters like the Catholic Church.

An perfect example of shadow-repression. I don’t see how labeling it “undogmatic” changes anything. The very act of long-term celibacy is dogmatic and forces deep conflict within the human organism.

try not having sex with your partner for awhile and see if you still like them, this is a glimpse of a deeper love.

No, it’s a glimpse of a perfect way to ruin a relationship. Non-sexual love is not superior to sexual. It’s a choice. If you cut someone off sexually, you risk irrevocably changing the situation.

Honestly, it sounds like you have been programmed really well with sex-negative attitudes.

DailySkew / December 2nd, 2008, 12:17 pm / #7

It’s no surprise the Dalai Lama is getting ripped to shreds for these comments.
BlackSun, I interpret the the Dalai Lama’s comments to be technically correct within the scope of Buddhism, and don’t see him declaring himself morally superior, as you and some of your posters do. I wish you had a more balanced article (it seemed pretty angry).

Certainly lust and preoccupation of sex isn’t good or productive. How much good actually comes out of watching porn every day, seeing women as sexual objects, or meeting guys from craigslist, cheating on your wife, engaging in S&M, etc?

The Dalai Lama is not trying to impose or judge…he’s just saying that the desire and attachment of sexual pleasure leads to more bad things than good.

BlackSun / December 2nd, 2008, 12:48 pm / #8

DailySkew,

I wish you had a more balanced article (it seemed pretty angry)

This is the balance.

The sex-negative worldview has billions of adherents, led by people like the Dalai Lama, the Pope, and radical Islamists, fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist Hindus, even so-called feminists sometimes demonize sex. I am calling specifically for balance.

If I’m angry, I own that. As I’ve said in the past. Sometimes we are angry because we love so much. I love humanity with all its good and darkness. It makes me angry when people pretend the dark, competitive, lustful and murderous impulses didn’t play just as important a role in human evolution. Now that we have the ability to channel our self-awareness, we shouldn’t get caught in the trap of pretending that’s not where we came from. To be fully healthy, we must integrate the darkness and make it conscious. When we give the dark voices some kind of measured expression, they are less likely to come out explosively and destroy what we value most.

Certainly lust and preoccupation of sex isn’t good or productive. How much good actually comes out of watching porn every day, seeing women as sexual objects, or meeting guys from craigslist, cheating on your wife, engaging in S&M, etc?

As for your straw-man analysis of sexual pathology, why is that the only option? Why do many people insist on drawing this false dichotomy? Could it be maybe that they don’t trust themselves to handle these powerful energies?

What’s wrong with hookups if they’re consensual? What’s wrong with porn in moderation? What’s wrong with acknowledging that women are indeed sexual objects–human nature is set up such that much like other animals, males compete over beautiful women. This doesn’t impede women’s self-ownership or self-expression. It doesn’t affect my respect for a beautiful woman. If anything it improves my opinion–if a woman is powerful enough to recognize and direct that attention to her advantage instead of being shamed by it. Whatever your view of this dynamic, it’s something to be aware of, a rule of the game if you like.

Why isn’t consensual S & M a valuable container for working out our repressed power dynamics and relationship to archetypes? Why don’t you look a little deeper into motivations for widespread human behavior such as cheating (which has evolutionary function–see Matt Ridley’s The Red Queen) before deciding you’re somehow above it.

DailySkew / December 2nd, 2008, 1:15 pm / #9

No one is saying anyone else is better or superior. Seems like you have that hang up, and like putting words into people’s mouths (is that phallic?) Seems like this is just a typical “no labels”, anti-authority, challenge all morality article.

Why is S&M not productive? Well, it doesn’t seem helpful to self-esteem and confidence to get shit on, right?

The D.L. didn’t saying love making was wrong.

Okay, we are animals and our subconscious desires are driven by sex. We pretend we are “normal” but we are all perverts deep down who don’t believe in commitment, and want to get off all the time. Civilization is all an illusion.

So?

Why not strive for the ideal instead of embracing the darkness and chaos. An open marriage is not okay if your partner doesn’t believe in it and would have his or her feelings hurt.

Most girls are taught to save themselves for the right person, while young guys are taught to bag as many chicks as possible. Dating rituals and social conditioning are and annoying, so I think you want a fully hedonistic world where you can have sex with anyone you’d like, with no guilt.

Of course, I checked other articles of yours, and you, of course, support the legalization of weed, atheism, and free love.

Not THAT is typical.

What are you going to complain about if your utopia actually ever became true, Mr. Anti-Establishment?

SERIOUSLY.

BlackSun / December 2nd, 2008, 1:22 pm / #10

What are you going to complain about if your utopia actually ever became true, Mr. Anti-Establishment?

Proving only you’re into labels and not serious dialog.

Morality is transactional and innate. An open marriage, for example is not “open” if both partners don’t agree. It’s just abusive. Where do you get off with all these straw men?

What does my support for rational drug policy or atheism have to do with this discussion? I’m talking about consensual and mutually beneficial human behavior.

Why do you think that shadow integration is not compatible with commitment, reason, morality and civilization?

AmenASHandF / December 2nd, 2008, 4:11 pm / #11

Alex & DailySkew, hello!
I feel the same way ; ) and understand the Dali Lama’s joyous selfishness. Wish we all saw it more! There would be less children sufferring & far less abortions.
After I got all my sexual experiences out (similar to Erin – not the same way, haven’t finished her bk) I got so sick of it, I had it! I saw how free & liberating it was not to desire sex like a uncontrolable dog in heat! And have an emence power to be free from wanting it and I know the human desire of wanting, dreaming, fantisizing & desiring it like anyone else who has.

Everyone doesn’t fit a cookie cutter image of being sexual human beings. I have found many people living happily without it who have liberal views on it, like my self. I hate it when everyone tells me I need a man to help me, love me, take care of me, support me, love my son too – nice vision but not realistic. Damn it ! I need to love myself first & find myself again, love & care for my son! Not have more problems!
I feel as the Dali Lama does about the freedom part. I do so much more with having this freedom than I other wise wouldn’t have being in a relationship I obviously don’t desire because of other interests at this time & have a power in this that I enjoy emencesly! Being banged on every other night was the reason my son’s father & I seperated, I was sick of it so often after being pregnant, especialy when I reached 8 months (this is when we seperated!)!!!!!! Ugh! As a woman I don’t take pleasure in being banged on so often! I take far more pleasure in my rest, having a refreshed feeling when I get up. Not that “Ugh I have to sleep a little more because of getting banged on several times in one night!
Sex for woman is a different experience from a mans. It really is. We get sore & exausted unlike the relief many of you “gentlemen” recieve from it. I am aware of woman getting relief, pleasure & satisfaction from an active sex life, even while having children. I don’t and I only have one.
It’s simple. I don’t want it when there is so many other things I have to & want to do, think about & what throws me off is the stress of worring about “Ahhh, could I be pregnant!?” And going through the steps to test, take the morning pill or a possible abortion or another baby that didn’t ask to be in this bizarre yet amazing place called Earth. Many men & women feel the same way, I’ve spoken to mant who feel the same way.
I’m glad for him & anyone who naturaly – not manipulativly obstains from sex. Our planet needs more of it! Sex maniacs do exist, I’ve known a couple! and seriously believe they have a disorder of some kind!
I agree with what I understand Sean saying the Dali Lama being prudish in his views, he has never had a sex life to begin with, so of coarse. But his views isn’t entirly a prudish one as it is a self satisfying selfish fullfillment of freedom from a wife, children & everything that comes with being in an active normal sex life. He makes it clear how much he enjoys & takes pleasure in traveling around the world getting all the attention he does rather than having to be tied down having a married life. I also understand you Sean as to being annoyed/offended to hear from a religious leader again putting down sex instead of talking positive about it’s reality & neccessity. I agree. But this is only an issue when again people idolize. If & when one doesn’t idolize, individuals can makup their own mind about the subject, not hanging on his every word. This is when it’s an issue, what I understand to be the tiff you have Sean with his statement. So my own reason for stating in past comments “not idolizing Buddhism…”. Never cared for the Pope nor have I the Dali Lama’s position in Buddhism. Naturaly I would having had the experience I did with your mother as Messenger. See & understand his power, it is very unfortunate. His oppinion is like anyones elses. An oppinion.
Thks for the piece Sean & your insight!

BlackSun / December 2nd, 2008, 4:44 pm / #12

Amen,

The problem is that people don’t seem to be able to make a choice like abstaining from sex without making moral judgments about others.

It should be a free choice, as free from external social overlays as possible. Obviously, if you were in an unfulfilled relationship, there was not going to be an equal desire for sex between you and your partner. That’s something to work out, and usually has to do with resentments and or intimacy issues. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting/needing sex–as long as you’re alone or with someone whose desire (or lack thereof) matches your own.

I had a real problem with the Dalai Lama’s categorical statement. Had he made clear it was a personal decision either way, I wouldn’t have objected. But the video demonstrates this was not an isolated incident.

As for making you sore, well unless that was the intent, someone needed to work on their technique. That he wasn’t open to your obvious feedback shows there was not an open channel of communication between the two of you. What a shame and a waste of opportunity.

Being a humanist, you realize that your close relationships probably represent the source of the most satisfaction you can find in life (other than the satisfaction of pure knowledge or helping others). When you spend a portion of your life with someone, you never get that time back. So you treat people close to you like gold. That’s my view, and that’s how I approach sexuality. I’m not having fun if she’s not having fun. ;-)

AmenASHandF / December 2nd, 2008, 5:04 pm / #13

Sorry, you to Peter!
Agreed, D.L. is really refering to his joy in having a free life style to travel with out the burden to him of having a married life. And thats fine & good. I respect & appreciate that he wasn’t fake about what he felt, shamfuly covering it up like some people who are embarressed of feeling this way or ashamed for their selfish happiness. Better for the population & children who other wise wouldn’t be happy with such an unhappy father who regrets later for having his children leaving them, breaking their hearts. It’s the way it should be, not the uncomfortablness many have feeling there is something wrong w/ them when they don’t desire sex. The Dali Lama really shows a male outlook that isn’t supported enough in families/life/media/commercials aswell as for the females. Especially if ones a Mormon! It’s okey to never be married or have kids, a family & live an adventurous life instead !
Power to the men & women who feel living a sexless adventurous life is more fullfilling than being typical in their human sexual roles in our worls of sex, drugs, rock n roll, fast cars, image, power & money. Balance, not imbalance.
I agree with everyone & believe it all fits in for everyone in our world to find their blissful route in life.

AmenASHandF / December 2nd, 2008, 6:12 pm / #14

Sean hello,
Right. I knew & understood we really weren’t fullfilled as we would have liked to be, he more with someone in his own cultural bkground. He went to Loas couple of months after we broke up & found the woman he is married to for the last 6 yrs w/ a daughter, my son’s half sister (she really loves her brother, looks up to him & I am happy for my ex). He doesn’t understand my life history, my person to have had a long indepth life together. Eventualy I saw he wasn’t what I wanted in my life. I’m gentle yet strong in my personality & he’s not. I have world opinions & he’s not even concerned of them – to much to think about. As for the sore part, that came around more when I was months pregnant. I just wanted to enjoy my pregnancy. For goodness sake I was already preganant but that didn’t stop him, even when I was 8 huge months big!!
So yea, that’s what I got out of your upset annoyance to D.L. statements. What’s with the pattern w/ the major religious establishments when it comes to sex, that number just stirs waves of oppinions, but why so typicle when it comes from the major ones?
I look at the Dali Lama’s simplistic views as natures way of showing us that these practices of Pope’s, D.L’S, Messengers, Prophets, Guru’s, Priest’s, Reverends, Minister’s & so many other titles, are not what the are suppose to be. They are a dream we only can fullfil for ourselves looking into our own psyche’s in discovering what & how we want to be, need to be in this kind of world we exist in. Like for example, my realisation that homosexuality is not only thru scientific study part of natural behavior but a balance to keeping our population down. Or that not having a sexual appetite isn’t a disorder but a good thing, it’s an issue only if it’s causing the person w/ such an issue unhappiness or is it the pressure from all around that it’s a disorder in turn causing it to be a problem?
Thks again Sean, you work hard in making this sight. It’s suprising you have the energy & appetite for a sex life yoursef ; ) ! he he I know that having such an active life style actualy creates the need for some good loving?

AmenASHandF / December 2nd, 2008, 6:25 pm / #15

P.S. Your part at the end was so very nice. People need to be treated like gold, precious jewels & my anger towards my ex had alot to do with his lazyness in just thinking of himself, his needs, not mine (I asked him to leave & felt so bad about it for some time because I can be cold when I feel I’m not being treated right but I have to love myself first when someoe around me clearly isn’t). He’s much happier & so am I discovering my life individualy & with my son & the world of people I get to know these days.
Dispite your relationship with your parents, you turned out to be a fine good man. Yor ex, sons & present love are very gifted to have you in their lives. Remember in 88 when you had Kathern bring over Chris for me to see? I was only 16. Who would have known that little thing was going to be a rock n roll band player?
Cheers! (mine’s an elegant glass of grape juice, preferably Welch’s ; )

Infidel753 / December 6th, 2008, 11:24 am / #16

Good grief. Yes, completely giving up sex probably does allow a person to avoid a certain amount of trouble. If you lived your entire life in a bomb shelter consuming only vitamin pills and distilled water, and never interacted with other humans in any way, you could avoid an even larger range of problems and dangers. The flaw is that you’d just be existing, not living. You avoid a lot of the bad, but you avoid even more of the good. The point of life is not just to reach the finish line (death) without having gone through any “complication”.

One does wonder why sex-negative religionists in most cultures of the world spend so much time and energy denigrating sex and, in many cases, even trying to regulate the sexual behavior of other people. Maybe they’re trying to convince themselves.

Alex. / December 6th, 2008, 1:57 pm / #17

Blacksun,

Thanks for your response, its challenged me to look closely at my posotion and realize that I was stating certain things as fact although they were only personal beliefs,(as the original article may also be guilty of) yet the overall view in my post remains essentially the same, if not slighty tempered :) So I’m taking the time to respond becuase I appreciate that your arguement was well thought out and not crazy bullshit. oh, and of course as the Dalai Lama might suspect, out of my own sense of ego! ha.
So starting with the poem from Kahil Gibran, I still think it was a bad example to use for your arguement against “those that condenm the inferior pleasures of the flesh” as the article states. given, the poem could very well be about marriage, but with a little research on Gibran we may discover that he would have not apprecited his poem being used as it was in the article. heres another poem from Gibran that seems to indicate his views on marriage as perhaps even being closer to the Dalai Lamas view, while Gabrin celebrates marriage he also warns against overattachment

You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days.
Ay, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.

Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other’s cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.

Give your hearts, but not into each other’s keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other’s shadow.
.
Ok, I’m getting tired of writing so I’ll be breif, you second arguement is the most compelling and I tend to agree with most of it, it’s claims are certainly true in my own life. , you say “Unconditional love is a naive fiction. Humans are self-interested organisms. They also contain a measure of empathy–but those signals are not as strong as those for self-protection and advancement. Healthy relationships are (or should be) transactional. Later, there is the possibility of some conditions being removed–such as when someone continues to care for a sick partner or make other grave sacrifices. But the willingness to sacrifice is the direct result of the power of promises given and received by the partners. Trust is built over time, so there is a “bank” to draw on when sacrifice is required.” there is much more evindence to suporrt your view but heres the kicker, you agree that some conditions can be removed when it comes to love, this is what people are trying to do with many religious practices like celibacy for instance, yes unconditional love does seem like a fiction, your actually more buddhist than you like to think (sorry) because one of the most difficult things for people to accept in buddhism is that absolutely all things are conditioned. so I guess removing some conditionens is good enough for me. Ok that last two arguements i’ll really be breif, i promise. When i said that celabicy has to avoid dogmatism i simply meant to avoid all sorts of problems with child abuse and other craziness it has to be a copleetly guilt free choice to begin or stop its practice. And finally my comment about “try not having sex and see if you still like your partner” was simply hypothetical , yeah, if you have a partner who would like to try it give’er, but your absolutely right assuming that its not a good thing to spring on someone. And your right non-sexual love is’nt superior but becuase we easily get attached to it it can become a problem. I tibetan tantra they actually use sex to achieve the same results the Dalai Lama wants, mabye a better suggestion would be to try becoming enlightened by having lots o’ sex.

Nancy Couick / December 6th, 2008, 9:16 pm / #18

I’ve heard claims that rabbis recommend a good, healthy sex life, especially for spiritual people. Anyone notice in the news last week that some pastor of a big church was exorting his flock to have daily sexual relationships for a week (as possible), to encourage communication, etc.? Apparently, it worked pretty good for some folks.

AmenASHandF / December 10th, 2008, 4:16 pm / #19

Infedel753
One does wonder why sex negative religionists….
I have always understood it is because of several things; fear of over indulgence of it & becoming out of control & STDs, concern & no desire to bring children into the world as it is -even fear & concern in being a bad parent.
Life is about discovery & sometimes one has to discover truths by living a certain way. One’s way of living is not the way another one wants or desires to live. Either way, doesn’t mean they are not living or just existing. An individuals fullfilled life shouldn’t have to be like another’s. Balance is good. Everyone doesn’t have to be sexualy active to feel alive..
In fact in psychological studies this is one of the reasons individuals become sex addictis, they don’t feel alive if they’re not having sex. This is not healthy in some oppinions but who’s concern is it if it’s not hurting anyone. Or is it?
Many unwanted children will have a “Yes” to that question.
Human beings are always trying to solve this issue of unwanted pregnancies & of many poorly taken care of children in the world.
So I also believe this is one of the reasons for such oppinions towards sex. Sex is just old english for the # six anyways. Procreation, physical intercoarse, love making – just isn’t the popular way to say it anymore. Like the word ass, it’s in the Bible as my son says. How did a word for a donkey come to mean some ones butt? Put the human body on a clock and it’s reproductive organs aline on six o’clock.
Sex – what’s the big deal, it’s just a number?!
It ‘s an act that brings in human life & that life deserves the best & all the love from those who co-created him, her or they. Woman have been known to have up to 4 naturaly! Without hormon therapies.
Sex is a big deal & humans need to show more responsibility to the fact we are suppose to be rational intelligent thinking beings. Obviously we all aren’t. Thus the reason I believe for the continued oppinion or preaching of celibacy. Balance is good, it’s really nice to have it in our world with so much pain.

Steve / December 12th, 2008, 10:45 pm / #20

Sean,

I strongly recommend that you read Michael Gazzinga’s book,
Human: The Science Behind What Makes Us Unique.

If only the Dalai Lama could be prevailed upon to read it and think critically. Do we have any hope of ever eradicating religion (or at least its human rights infringing dogmatic propositions, dubious metaphysical contentions, and highly suspect moral edicts) in favor of cooperation, toleration, pluralism, humility, the pursuit of research, knowledge and wisdom, respectful debate, and most importantly, the surmounting of fear to face reality squarely and act heroically in whatever circumstances we find ourselves to honor our own autonomy and potentialities? Is such a vision possible? Is our understanding of evolutionary theory a liberating answer to one of mankind’s most enduring questions–“How did we get here?”–or a prison sentence without possibility of parole?

Steve

BlackSun / December 12th, 2008, 10:53 pm / #21

Steve,

Great questions and what looks like a great book recommendation. Thanks.

Michael / December 27th, 2008, 6:18 am / #22

You Know what they say about opinions, don't you……………………..? They're like assholes… every body has one. Sure sex isn't the "Be all" and " End all" in this dreery world of ours, but, If you're a believer, then you should realize your g-d gave us sex because it feels so good. And it's NEEDY to ease the normal everyday pain of living. And if you're a free thinker/ atheist/agnostic, etc. Then you know that it is through sex with someone we love that humans achieve their highest state of Consciousness. I myself have had "Out of Body Experiences" during sex. I ask one simple question, Dahli……………….. How can a non-participant judge what he has not tasted? You're no better than the f–king Poop! You're just a 'Kill Joy'.

BlackSun / December 27th, 2008, 7:22 am / #23

Michael, you said it. Sounds like sour grapes for old Dalai!

Valhar2000 / December 29th, 2008, 12:00 pm / #24

Well, there are people who are asexual, which is to say, they do not fell the urge to engage in sexual acts, and it is conceivable that they might fear social condemnation due to their disinterest in sex (for example, asexual males may fear being though of as gay if they live in anti-homosexual communities). They are comparatively rare, even more so than homosexuals, but they exist, and they too should be free to engage in their prefered mode of sexual expression (or lack thereof).

This does not mean that the Dalai Lama is in any way correct, since the asexual lifestyle is only one among many, suitable for some and not for others.

BlackSun / January 5th, 2009, 2:45 am / #25

As long as a person is living with integrity, however they relate to sexuality is their own concern. Including a choice (or orientation) not to have sex. I've read about asexuals, and it seems to be as innate for them as being gay or heterosexual is for others.

The problem comes in when authority figures such as the Pope or Dalai Lama try to make value judgments about others' choices. Maybe the Dalai Lama is asexual. But then he should be enlightened enough to know himself and not project his lack of interest in sex onto those who are different.

Having said that, I abhor any prejudice based on sexual orientation, including against asexuals.

albert / February 25th, 2009, 9:00 am / #26

Welcome to BlackSun's comment

This is very fair, rational and objective comment. This kind of opinion is praise worthy.
Whatever DD Lama comments only influence on those who follow his faith and it won't matter to others anyway.

Albert / February 19th, 2009, 6:21 am / #27

To Michael….
Your foul language represents your personality that of barbarian. We are now civilized. I believe you know. You have degraded yourself and your religion when you use F lanuage in the public. Why don't you bravely exchange your opinion rationally. Shame on you.

Michael / February 25th, 2009, 2:18 pm / #28

Dear ALBERT. Thankfully, I have no religion……………… DON'T NEED IT, DON'T EVER WANT IT. RELIGION IS FOR THE WEAK MINDED who need others to tell them how to live their lives. I've been an ATHEIST for more than 30 years. RELIGION is Bullshit, and the ROOT cause of many if not most , of the problems on this planet. If you believe in a HIGHER "spirit" than you must believe that he also gave you your brain to think with, and to not be one of the "flock of sheep" slowly being lead to the slaughter! Geebus can get on line right behind the Dahlai Lama to kiss my ass!

Michael / January 4th, 2009, 1:17 am / #29

>>The point of life is to reach the finish line (death)??<<. I think the point of life is to reach the finish line which is actually Life and not death.Death is the starting point which we run from all our life and Life is the finish line which when we cross it , we jump up and celebrate our victory.Ahsta La Vista!

Michael / January 4th, 2009, 1:40 am / #30

Well one day the dali lama's daddy got a hard on or erection right between his legs and the dali lama's momma saw the hard on and she said> put that there hard on right between my legs.Well they had an orgasm that night and 9 months later out came the dali lama.So now the dali lama wants to say negative things about the things that brought him into this world in the first place.Well the dalai lami is entitled to his point of view so im sure he wasnt condemning sex alltogether but trying to balance the positive point of view with the negative point of view about sex.Now i think maybe the dali lama should meditate on that thing there between his legs and say to himself>>> Why is that thing hangin between my legs??And the answer is >>> So you can make another dali lama.

Michael / February 20th, 2009, 12:48 am / #31

Get over yourself……. The Dahai Lama is just another Human being, just like you and me. I'm not a Barbarian, but I'm also someone who refuses to take the Word of someone who considers himself to be better then I am, just because he spent years squirreled away in a cave somewhere. If anything , I'm closer to the Bhudda who realizes that there really are no g-ods real or imaginary. Just humans with different amounts of understanding about the World. Denying sex does not lift you above humanity….. it separates you from humanity. I place The Dahlai Lama in the same class as the poop (POPE)…………. someone speaking about a subject about which he knows nothing, yet tries to influence others for their own selfish ends! You can't make me believe that the F–king poop believes that having unlimited children is actually good for Humanity and the Planet as a whole. He's just spouting the same old worn-out church line. And same goes for the SELFISH Dahlai Lama.

Albert / February 20th, 2009, 7:19 am / #32

To rude Michael……
Can you see you missed my point as well as others people points. Hence, you have cognitive problem.
My response is about your using bad language in the public forum. I am not interested in debating about DD Lama 's opinion. When you are being rude, you are not capable of expressing your points to others. In other words, people do not take your words seriously. You know what I meant?
Dont ' worry about DD Lama' s opinion, you have your right have sex as much as and as long as you can. But can you refrain from using barbaric lanaguage here. Let see your mind control ability.
That's my point.
Albert

Michael-,Motor cycle / February 21st, 2009, 2:39 am / #33

Well fuck you Mother-Fucker, and the Bitch you dropped out of! I'm not a bit interested in what you think of me…………. You're less than a boil on my ass you COCK-SUCKER

albert / February 24th, 2009, 8:45 pm / #34

To rude Miachel
You degraded your own mother when you swear. When you generate animal minds such as anger, hatred and all negatives, you are the first victim of your own agitations and negative emotions; hence you first suffer hellish within when you wrote all these craps. You have to project all these negative emotions within to spread all around the society. Hence, you are very bad for civilized society and peaceful earth.
Go and learn more about the essence of your own religion whatever you belong to, which is all good per se. And just relax and be happy and be civilized. Don’t be animal. People are here to listen and share their different view points, but not your animal language which a good human won’t understand. Got it, my friend? I ain’t hate you, but just feel sorry for your ignorance. Go see your religion teacher and tell him to teach you the right thing to become a better person in the society.

Michael / February 25th, 2009, 1:57 pm / #35

Dear Albert, I must tell you, I learned to curse from my mother. Unfortunately my mother was a very damaged personality, whose father died when she was only five, and whose mother placed the blame for that on my mother. My mother never recovered, and she ended up treating her own children terribly….. Me especially because I was her first born. My mother never had a kind word for anyone, and although she was a very intelligent person, thankfully, because that's where I got my brain, she was incapable of showing any love. She was critical of everyone and everything, and unfortunely I have inherited much of that. Fortunately I also became the ARTIST in our family, as well as it's greatest critic. I paint, sculpt, and build furniture. I also devote myself to wildlife, and I'm an avid bird-watcher. RELIGION hold little for me, in fact I am a strong ATHEIST. You DON'T NEED FALSE ghuords to become a good person. Sure I harbour strong opinions, Because, I HATE PHONIES TELLING ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE. G-od is pure shit and MIND CONTROL. TRY READING NIETZSCHE, ROBERT GREEN INGERSOLL, SHOPENHAUR, and BERTRAND RUSSELL.

Albert / February 26th, 2009, 8:22 am / #36

Hi Michael,

Now I see your points more clearly. I like Bertrand Russel’s book called “ The problem of philosophy and “ why I am not Christian” also convincing.
I can understand your very difficult childhood life that have the similar to that of mine. But I belive in my present action that will shape my future. Since you are Atheist, you might like non-sectarian with no God type. If you are interested in Vipassana meditation, which is not religion, but meditation and learn the art of living. You can check this website out, if you like. You might something interesting.
http://www.dhamma.org
I like the ariticle named The Art Of Living in this websites.

Michael / February 26th, 2009, 1:09 pm / #37

Hi Albert. Glad we could reach some kind of understanding. I have entered the website onto my favorites list, and I might go back there to check out some of the articles. Thank you for your concern, and sorry to hear that you have had a similar childhood experience. Let's face it, many parents suck, and I believe that there should be some kind of test before people are even allowed to become parents! But I also realize that this is PROBABLY unrealistic. Through a ''shrink'', I have managed to overcome most of the damage done to me by my own parents, and I highly advocate that you see one also, if you haven't already. Through a minimum of sessions my Phychiatrist helped me to deal with a great deal of the hate I had harboured for most of my life. Seeing a shrink does not mean you're crazy, it does however help you to see the world in ways that you just might not have thought of before. There's also a great book….THE DANCE of ANGER by Harriet Lerner. which my doctor recommended to me which was a great help in learning how to deal with anger. It is part of my permenant library.

Michael / February 21st, 2009, 2:48 am / #38

I didn't miss your point………………I don't care about your point. Don't criticize me, we're talking about the god-damn Dahli Lama! The sexless mo=fo trying to get people to agree with him that sex is bad. Hey if it wasn't for sex, neither him or you and I and the rest of the 6.7 BILLIONS of people wouldn't be here. Sure there will be complications……… There are complications with everything. My own mother entered the hospital 10 years ago for a , Quote, "Simple procedure….. Poof, complications arose, and she left the hospital in a wooden box! COMPLICATIONS!!!!! By the way, I love using the F word, especially if it offends you, the brainless. It's just a word, dummy. Words can't hurt you. Didn't your Mommy tell you?

albert / February 24th, 2009, 8:43 pm / #39

To rude and barbaric Michael………….____Well, very obviously you are a bad guy. You cannot even control your mind and behaving like an animal in the public. Here in this blog, people welcome and appreciate the freedom of exchanging our opinions in a civilized manners. I personally do not agree with DD Lama’s opinion on sex. This is his opinion which we do not necessarily have to agree, but we don’t have to become insane like you are. Let’s just debate in civil manner. We all are human and none of us are wild and violent animals. As I am not a holy monk or Pope, I find it a bit too extreme. I do enjoy all the opinions with their well supported views, but not your rude language written in your animal consciousness. You degraded your own mother when you swear. When you generate animal minds such as anger, hatred and all negatives, you are the first victim of your own agitations and negative emotions

Michael / February 26th, 2009, 1:22 pm / #40

Hi Albert, Michael here again, I'm happy we're able to have this conversation. Here is another book recommended to me by my shrink more than 10 years ago. I hope it may be of assistance to you too…… If you still have anger issues. Apparently you have chosen the Meditation route and I hope that has helped you. If however you still need further help here is another terrific book….. ANGER KILLS by Drs. REDFORD WILLIAMS and his wife VIRGINIA WILLIAMS, PH,D Good luck, Friend

albert / February 27th, 2009, 7:02 am / #41

Hi Michael,
Thanks for the books you suggest. I think I went through the same situation like you did. Both my parents passed away. So I find it no point to live in the past, but move on. I used to be very angry persons and always pissed people off and used a lot of foul language. By doing so, I used to harm myself and harm and hurt others. And I read many books on anger management and self help books too, and saw a phychiatrist very briefly and diagnoses as suffering from personality disorders or something. It did not help a lot. I find reading the books on anger management has only effects on intellectual level. Finally, somebody recommended me to learn Vipassana meditation, which is the training the art of living. Then I have realized all my sufferings are caused by myself. I am now a happier person. That’s why if you look at the website http://www.dhamma.org and read the article “ Art of Living”, you will like it. This meditation was taught in the biggest prison in India and also teaching in some prisons in the U.S. Records show prisoners improve and benefit from this Vipassana meditation.

Michael / February 27th, 2009, 8:27 pm / #42

Hi Albert, I'm past all that anger stuff too……… I even managed to forgive my parents. I'm not angry any more. Forgivness was the hardest part, but once done, it frees you to then go on and enjoy life. I have gone to your website http://www.dhamma.org, but I'm at a place now where I don't believe I really need it. I use curse words to get attention. I find it works very well, as our continuing dialogue has gone on to prove. I'm also an Artist. The title of my screen name is not just for the sound of it. I OIL PAINT, I SCULPT, and I BUILD FURNITURE. All of these bring a trtemndous amount of fulfilment, and satisfaction. PRAISE CREATIVITY!

Michael / February 25th, 2009, 2:09 pm / #43

Get with it ALBERT!!!! My Mother deserved to be degraded, my brother and I both hated her guts for the way she treated us as we grew up. She was a very damaged person, because of her own childhood….. and INCAPABLE of showing any love!!! What mystifies me, though, was this. She was very smart, yet incapable of overcoming her own terrible childhood. Both my brother and I refused to have any contact with her for periods as long as 15 years! The day my Mother died was a HIGHLIGHT in my life. She died 10 years ago, and I have yet to shed a tear. She made my heart hard, but my mind strong. For that I thank her………….. But it sure would have been good to have had a loving Mother, instead of the one I had. And another thing, ALBERT. We all have animal minds within us………….. set yours free and let your real emotions come out.

Grant / June 30th, 2009, 5:14 am / #44

I don't think the Dalai Lama is slamming sex per say. Check out this page for example of some quotes of his on the subject. –>> http://sacred-sex.org/buddhism/14th-dalai-lama-an

He even says it can be beneficial and perhaps even "necessary" for a certain spiritual realization.

I think it really depends on the thoughts/mindset being the activity, as with everything.

BTW, don't you know that the reason you hold contempt for something is because you are projecting your own unconscious guilt onto it? Forgive him. Then forgive yourself for it being necessary that you would need to forgive him in the first place :P

The Horror / October 11th, 2010, 2:39 pm / #45

Grant makes a good post, because if any of these people actually took the time to research and understand Buddhism, they would see Tantra is its' deepest mystery, particularly white. There are many ways to express ourselves sexually, but who likes the challenge of celibacy or white tantra? I have heard of no Atheists possessing this type of will, but they may exist?

The Prettiest Man / October 11th, 2010, 2:41 pm / #46

I know many atheists that are celibate! I suppose Nietzsche was an atheist in many peoples eyes, but I doubt he was a white tantrist hahahahaha!

Curious / February 6th, 2011, 3:57 pm / #47

If you (Sean) are advocating choice and integrating "good" with "evil" or "shadow", why do you slam those who make choices other than your own? Anyone who believes in Ascended Masters, Prophets (be it related to you or not) or Divine with physics of energy are on your "hit list". Perhaps your "against" is as skewed as your parents' spiritual views as you claim. Perhaps it is time for you to integrate your childhood wounding and embrace "good" with "wounded" in yourself. Perhaps you may be like many human beings, searching to make sense through arguing and challenging on the outside because you too blame the external called your "parents". Just a wonder. This seems to have its root in your own development as a human in this life of yours.
Thanks for inspiring others to search within and without to learn more about their human experiences. Get to the root and heal the heartaches from childhood.

BlackSun / February 8th, 2011, 2:13 pm / #48

Most people do not feel free to make their own choices. They are full of guilt and overlays of negative social programming, fallacies and lies they've been fed from birth. This is particularly true about sexuality. When the Dalai Lama or any other 'spiritual' teacher make such statements, they raise themselves up as unsubstantiated authorities on matters of deepest concern to humanity. We know so much more today than when these ancient beliefs were founded, we are obliged to act accordingly. No idea or tradition is so sacrosanct that it should not be questioned.

By all means, be free and make your own choices about sex or anything else. But if you want the privilege of leading others–if you want your views to be taken as anything other than your opinion–be prepared to be called to account.

As for my article, the Dalai Lama has the right to his opinion, and so do I.

Mika / May 19th, 2011, 1:16 pm / #49

Full text on what he said. Leaving stuff out seems somehow dishonest…
"Sexual pressure, sexual desire is short period satisfaction. But often, it leaves more complications. One of my friends, a Canadian, was a Buddhist monk, but after some time, he disrobed. Now he complains about so much sexual pressure, that’s he’s virtually trapped (laughs). Obviously, due to sexual pressure, people marry,soon after, they divorce. Again, they marry, and may divorce again. Divorce in a marriage which has produced children is terrible. In marriage, there is short period of sexual satisfaction, but there are many ups and downs. Monks or nuns have been trained to master their desires, and there is much less ups and downs. Monks, nuns, naturally as human beings have desires for sex, it is biological. But then, those who marry always have trouble, and in some cases it leads to murder or suicide. So, that is the consolation. We miss something, but at the same time, we live better lives. More independence, more freedom.

In marriage, if you live together, happy, and get old, there is the issue of who goes first, who dies first. Human attachment to your children and partner. And it becomes an obstacle to peace of mind. Whether right or wrong, we monks think that way. What do you think? You should join the monkhood (long laughter).
The attachments bring trap. Whether it is to a person, to substances or whatever, it is a trap. Monks are detached. One of the practices in all major religions is detachment. Don’t have too much attachment, and you’ll be contented. You have it in Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, all major religions. You should be contented. Wealth, money, friend, family, contentment is best. It’s the key to peace of mind. Some of my friends are billionaires, but their minds is on more, more money. Contentment means some kind of personal check, but it doesn’t mean we no longer have desire. But attachment and desire should be separate. Without desire, then life is meaningless. Desire for good, for more service to others, desire for more benefit to others. That makes your life more meaningful. Without desire, then you’re a robot. No further progress. Genuine desire, with reasons, with logic, that’s proper desire.
Anger also can be two types. One anger comes spontaneously. That’s okay. But the anger that says this person is my enemy, I have to hit back, that is bad and is based on ignorance, lack of holistic view. If you behave well to your enemy, practice forgiveness, and reach out in all sincerity, one day the enemy and you may become best of friends. We should not close that possibility."

Post a comment

Comments are closed for this post.