Article

Documentary on CUT Bomb Shelters: Call for Participants

1040l.jpg

Eighteen years ago today was a D-day of sorts: October 2, 1989 was the day Elizabeth Clare Prophet (as “Saint Germain”) had told her followers in Church Universal and Triumphant on the same date in 1987 “ere 24 months have passed, take care to be sure you are in your right place,” by which she meant they should be ready to survive nuclear war. Townspeople held their “end of the world parties,” but as it turned out, Saint Germain’s “day of reckoning” was postponed several times from October 2, 1989 to March 15, 1990. On the “ides of March,” with equipment, fuel, and food packed to the gills, and Prophet expecting war for real, (though people were mostly told it was a precautionary drill until they were inside) over 700 people spent a night underground in the barely completed shelters.

The next morning, shocked and relieved CUT staff members emerged from the shelter to a sunny day and a world little changed from the previous night. Soon after, they began the arduous task of cleaning up the mess of spilled fuel around the shelters, facing crushing debt they had thought they’d never have to repay, and resuming lives and careers they’d forsaken. CUT as an organization was never quite the same.

It’s been a long eighteen years since then, and most people have moved on. But the real story of that project, the families and children involved, how and why it happened has never been told from a solid insider perspective, which just a few people were privy to. There’s a lot of information that still hasn’t come out–enough to fill a documentary.

Though I was one of the select few who knew many of the details, I can’t tell this story all by myself. To that end, I’ve already started conducting interviews and already have compiled a growing list of people who would like to talk about their shelter experiences on camera. I can’t predict what the ultimate distribution will be for this documentary, but I’m confident based on interest I’ve received that it will be widely seen.

I want to make one thing very clear to church members and others alike: This is not a cheap-shot hit piece on the organization nor on the people who participated in the project. After all, I was one of them. I was out there on March 15, 1990 running around with a bullhorn trying to get people to come into the shelters before midnight. So this project is as much about me trying to figure out what I was doing there as anything else. I want to reclaim that history.

I felt then as I do now that the effort to build the shelters for 756 people was nothing short of heroic. The people involved sacrificed immensely. The prospect of impending war was psychologically very real. They thought (as I did) they were fighting for their lives and the lives of their families. Men and women, young and old, worked 12-16 hours a day six or seven days a week for more than two years out of a combination of spiritual duty and desire for self-preservation.

For those who don’t know, in the Mol Heron Creek drainage, just outside of Yellowstone Park, we built one of the largest and highest-quality private blast and fallout shelters in the country. The fact that no one working on shelters in the Paradise Valley was maimed or killed (as far as I remember) during years of heavy construction by novices is a testimony to the luck of the do-it-yourselfers, as well as the experience and skill of the engineers and foremen of the work crews on the larger projects. Though church members bought an arsenal of high-powered assault weapons, no confrontation with the government occurred such as happened in Waco, Texas. If it had, CUT would have been seared into the national consciousness much like the Branch Davidians were, and I wouldn’t be writing this.

All such irony aside, work in the CUT Engineering and Planning department was a lot of fun and a great learning experience. I miss the friends I had there. It was easy to forget we were preparing for the end of the world. It was more like working on a top-secret government project. Our meetings bristled with excitement. But finding out afterward that the shelters were not needed was a lot like finding out we’d been climbing a mountain for two years, getting to the top of the mountain and realizing we’d climbed the wrong one. Not only that, but our supplies were exhausted and our morale was destroyed, and people thought we were insane. Even though we were ecstatic the world didn’t actually end, it was the mother of all letdowns.

So that’s my focus for the documentary: How did we decide to put the equivalent of $53,000 per person–that’s $40,000,000 in 2006 dollars, not including the all-volunteer labor–into building shelters? How did we follow a leader up the wrong mountain? It’s especially ironic that the same amount of money, human drive and sacrifice we all poured underground could have easily built each of the 756 people who had berths in the shelter a modest but comfortable home on church property–with money left over to put toward the schools, chapels, and community centers originally planned by the church. Why did we put our lives on hold and feverishly misdirect our resources in such a self-destructive manner? Hundreds of people had joined the church staff over the years hoping to one day build a serene and happy spiritual community. Why did their dreams have to be entombed in intricate but useless tubes of concrete and steel? Why did we move forward with a morbid shelter project right at the very moment when the state had approved our community EIS and was in the process of overturning the environmental groups’ last challenge to it? Those are the burning questions that remain in my mind nearly 20 years later.

The simple answer is that the decision to build shelters came as a result of unambiguous and urgent “divine revelation.” I’m on the record with my Black Sun Journal audience and in several newspaper interviews as denouncing that type of message as a fraud and a delusion. I’m not wavering from that stance here at all. But still, I accepted the revelation at the time, and obeyed it, and so did thousands of others.

VERY IMPORTANT: I’m not just talking to people who now think it was all a big lie. I’d like to hear from people who may have left the church after the shelter period, but still believed in the teachings. Even if you still think the shelters were a good idea, I want your perspective. I plan to talk to current church members to get their view of that period in their history. I’ve already scheduled some interviews with people who were children (now mostly in their 20s) and had parents who were on staff or working on the project. If you were a teenager during 1989-1990, and your family was involved in a bomb shelter, please get in touch with me–I want to know how this has affected your life. I’m interested in stories from anyone who built a private shelter in Glastonbury, Montana or elsewhere. (I actually need Glastonbury shelter info more than CUT’s own, since I already have a lot of documentation on CUT’s project.) I’d like to talk to you if you were in the church in 1989-1990 and did NOT have a shelter space–how did you reconcile it with your beliefs? That’s almost a more interesting story than those who obeyed. Finally, if you feel you were substantially wronged by the church or its members as a direct consequence of shelter building, I’d like to know about it.

Above all, I’m deeply sorry for some of my behavior and the people I treated badly and for whatever negative role I played in the unfolding of events. I’m sorry we caused such a ruckus for the people of Montana. I was young and inexperienced–which of course doesn’t absolve me of responsibility. This film will represent my homage to everyone who was affected and an apology that will hopefully mean more than mere lip service.

Something grabbed us all and captured our attention. “El Morya” spoke and most of us listened. We got off on fighting his incessant epic spiritual battles (“The Labors of Hercules,” etc.). What was it that convinced us? For those who are still in the church, what IS it that convinces you now? Paraphrasing Christiane Amanpour from her brilliant series “God’s Warriors,” we cannot and should not ignore these stories nor the people who lived them. With this documentary, I’m going to try my best to explain them.

So PLEASE–get in touch with me. Forward this article to anyone you know who was a part of this history or had any connection to it. I’m looking for all levels of participation. I will be traveling as necessary to conduct the interviews. If you have a story but don’t want to be on camera, send me tips or background details you think might be relevant. If you’d like to be interviewed but are worried about social or professional repercussions, I can disguise your identity (silhouette interview with vocal processing). The more people who are willing to go on the record openly, the better the film will be. But I’d rather have parts of this story told anonymously than not told at all.

Please send me email addresses and phone numbers of people you think might have something to say. If you have photos or newspaper clippings and can scan them, that would be greatly appreciated. If you have audio or video of the seminal dictations from “Saint Germain” and “El Morya” about the shelters (or any other relevant event of that period), those would be extremely helpful. Any other records of shelter committee meetings, contracts, sales literature, or events would be useful in rebuilding the chronology. Also I need photos or video of people inside the shelters during drills. Please contact me privately with any and all inquiries about this project or proposals for participation at sean at seanprophet dot com.

This is your chance to tell your bomb shelter story and complete the historical record. Please help me make this happen! Thank you.


Comments (91 comments)

BlackSun / April 22nd, 2008, 1:37 pm / #1

Abogada,

Thanks. I’ve often said that if my parents themselves walked bodily into King Arthur’s Court and announced that the whole religion had been fabricated it would dissuade very few of the true believers. Who of course were there not because they really respected the messengers, but because they liked the message. So if the message had changed, the believers would have gone to follow someone else who told them what they were expecting to hear.

Now that CUT has no living messenger, they have only tapes, memories, and legends to fall back on. Which is why many members have defected to the newer messengers and their familiar dramatis personae.

This phenomenon of defection has been going on in masters organizations since Blavatsky. Which proves that rather than having contacted a true spirit world, or even gained inner knowledge, most believers are caught up with what amounts to an addiction to fortune-telling.

I remember how whenever there was an international crisis, we used to wait with bated breath for "Saint Germain" to tell us what was really going on. And he never failed to deliver a gripping narrative and made us feel so indispensable. Like we were the finger in the dyke between divine order and utter planetary destruction. The flattery–which is too much for most people to resist–goes like this: "By day, I sell insurance, but every Saturday night at the Saint Germain service, I save the world!" How self-important.

But what I never thought about until later is how "Saint Germain" was always there after the crisis and never before. Take the shooting down of KAL 007 in 1983. A true master would have been able to predict the event in advance and have us decree to avert it (if decrees even worked). More recently, "Archangel Michael" (channeled by Carolyn Shearer) was johnny-on-the-spot after 9/11. But what good is an imaginary protector if he’s not there when you need him? How is that different from no protection at all? I mean think about all the hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of hours of decrees given over the years…

Believers will always assert that things would have been much worse without the decrees. But thats always a safely unprovable assertion. We’ll never know. In the end, they rely on such fabricated but comforting reassurances, or like Trevor, the weak apologetics (couched in a fairy tale, no less) of C.S. Lewis.

What we do know, and can prove, is the following:

  1. Worship consumes your time, which is the most valuable resource people have.
  2. Devotion to scripture and authoritarian teaching ruins your ability to be skeptical and think critically.
  3. Both of the above put you into a suggestible state that allows leaders to more effectively control a target population.
  4. Therefore, religion is incompatible with a path of self-determination and self-knowledge.
  5. Without the above, it would have been highly unlikely that people would have heeded calls to put their lives on hold and build bomb shelters.

These are the questions and subjects which I still am convinced will make for an exciting and revealing documentary.

Bethanie Green / May 21st, 2008, 10:20 am / #2

Sean, are you still accumulating stories or is this project done? I would be glad to share the story about how Ken decided to quit his job of 18 years as a Navy satellite engineer, “to live” and be with his family during this time of trials and choices (or mind control and fear mongering [or weak-mindedness and ignorance!]…if the door is still open for contributions.

BlackSun / May 21st, 2008, 10:29 am / #3

Bethanie,

The door is definitely still open. I will be working on this for a few years. Because I have bills to pay, my commercial work takes precedence. But I’m dedicated to completing this project and welcome your participation. Please contact me privately to let me know your location and schedule. Thanks

Amaterasu / May 23rd, 2008, 4:07 am / #4

There was an Australian bomb shelter project undertaken at the time of said crisis.
So that’s, err, about 13,000 plus or so kilometers away from the fore casted event.
It ended rather amusingly with Aussie tabloid Journos descending apon the site of construction, like a pack of hungry dingos, scattering the few devotees, hammers in hand.
Labelled later by the press as “local cult leader”, the sole brave individual devotee who stood his ground turned the tables when asked: “So when is this all going to happen??” (Supposed strike).
He replied: “Well I thought you would tell us, after all you’re the media”.
I’m hoping to provide opportunity for elaboration on this story for you.
Comedy relief – all good.

Bente Berg / June 24th, 2008, 3:47 pm / #5

Dear S
I am a KOF and I was present in 1988 when the question about shelters came up in Portugal.
I do also remember in Norway in 1979 when we got a message that the Sovjet Union had attaced USA and we could expect an attack against Europe.This had noyhing to do with CUT
at all.
I live in Norway and I remeber hearing this on the news in my home town.
I remeber people were waiting in great fear for the bomb that would destroy the whole
world.
For several days people would stop and talk to each other about this.
So your parents did not invent the end of the world.
We had a cold war for 20 years
and there were no shelters in the USA. We were not expecting to survive so shelters were not built-
People all over Europe were very afraid of this and they never heard of CUT
This is the reason why people built shelters.
The cold war was not over in 1988 Sean
I want to tell ypu that I met your mother.
And I also met some of the divine beings she was talking about.
I am sorry to hear that you are not happy with your parents.
I am very happy with them.

And I wish you the very best.

Best regards Bente

BlackSun / June 30th, 2008, 7:41 am / #6

Bente Berg,

I’m well aware of the Cold War and the fears it generated. I was in Germany in 1983 covering the massive demonstrations against the deployment of US Pershing II missiles which lead to the INF treaty being signed by Reagan and Gorbachev. I’ve never seen anything like those demonstrations in my life.

This fear had been building for a generation, and it was on everyone’s mind that the US and USSR would fight it out over Europe. People feared a repeat of World War II, but with nukes. It was an apocalyptic prospect. Still, a mistaken alert by a government is in an entirely different category than what happened at CUT.

“Saint Germain” and “El Morya’s” prophecies about war with the Soviet Union were not about politics at all. They were a kind of fire and brimstone fantasy of judgment of unbelievers. As such they had more in common with the Christian “Rapture” than a question of civil defense.

Most CUT believers I’ve talked to built shelters because they thought it would “mitigate” the prophecies.

People in Europe built shelters because it was a matter of government policy in several countries.

So let’s not confuse religion and politics. OK?

BlackSun / July 2nd, 2008, 8:34 am / #7

Lets not confuse religion and politics?
Confuse?

America is a country of so religious people that a president who does not believe in God
could not become an American president.
I live in Norway and here things are different.
I see from yoyr webside that you have made up your mind before talking to me
so what is the point?
I believe that when the world face a cold war and the leaders doesnt do their job in buliding
shelters for people – it is a good thing that someone does.
You seem to think that as long as we dont confuse politics and religion it doesnt matter
if people have shelters or not. Cold war or not.

Best regards Bente Berg

Bente, your logic does not follow. Government civil defense policy may be a good idea. But CUT members went too far. It was not merely civil defense but an obsessive orgy of preparation for an event they thought was virtually certain to occur. Food storage was for seven months/seven years–not the two weeks needed to escape most nuclear fallout. The CUT shelter period followed dictations which had announced an all out nuclear war precisely at the time of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. So don’t pretend that there was some kind of authentic divine guidance. It just doesn’t add up. If that were the case, then the CUT shelter building would have occurred much earlier when the threat was more plausible.

Shelters may be a good idea as an insurance policy, but CUT spent its entire endowment on this project. Rationalize it if you want, but I think a better explanation is called for, which is why I’m interested in talking to people about their personal reasons for participating.

Are you interested in the truth–or merely self-justification of your beliefs?

Bente Berg / July 2nd, 2008, 11:59 am / #8

I think it comes down to this:

Some people have heard and seen the Ascended Masters and some have not.
Those who have not- think that CUt are people of great fantasy and so on.

Best regards Bente Berg

Louis / July 2nd, 2008, 11:14 pm / #9

Some people have heard and seen the Ascended Masters

How do you know you’ve actually heard or seen the ascended masters?

The mind is pretty creative and can make you think/imagine some pretty amazing things. I have no doubt you imagined those beings, however beyond creating that image in your head… you actually haven’t seen or heard anything at all. If you did, you could prove it.

I’ll test this spirit; and demand you prove you saw or heard something! Prove this is just not a receptive state of auto-suggestive hypnosis.

If you can’t provide proof, you are making it up (imagining it…) or worse, you’re a big fat liar.

Louis / July 2nd, 2008, 11:33 pm / #10

edit: to add

I was in the movement for 8-ish years. I went to 3 summer conferences, a spring conference, and a few fall conferences. I was on the Board of Directors in my local Study group for 2 years…

In that time, I had many, MANY experiences.

I have a boatload of stories about what I though I heard, or saw.

Of all those experiences, almost all of them happened as personal private experiences. Only a few experiences were shared, and only one was with a good sized group (the young mystics.)

I know with certainty, that I can’t reproduce those events and I don’t have a shred of proof that what I saw and heard was real.

For all it matters, I imagined the whole thing… and in retrospect, that’s what IS the most plausible.

Bente Berg / July 3rd, 2008, 10:03 am / #11

This is like” how can you prove you can think?”
Show me one of your thougts, and I will believe you.

Whatever the mind is doing it is also telling us that things are real or they are not real
So- the same mind but this time we can be sure??
Somehow it reminds me of the dark ages when serious people tried to find out how many angels vcould be places at the top of a pin?

We can not just say that if I didnt see it- it doesnt exist, because I say so.

Bente

BlackSun / July 3rd, 2008, 10:44 am / #12

Bente,

Louis is completely correct here. And you are using the oldest trick in the believer portfolio:

Shifting the burden of proof.

If you want to credibly demonstrate something no one else can see to be real, YOU prove it. Everyone’s subject to the same rules–like gravity. And those ground rules form the scientific method. Going outside the method is an exercise in narcissism and solipsism. You are essentially ignoring the rules of evidence by claiming they don’t apply to your private experiences. That’s your business–but such claims have precious little relevance outside your own head.

Thoughts can be readily seen on fMRI scanners. If you want to engage in real discussions about these questions of existence (ontology)–it’s time for you to get educated about the nature of life, consciousness, and reality.

You are clearly way out of your depth.

Bente Berg / July 3rd, 2008, 2:24 pm / #13

I have no time for this you guys

You dont like religion and .
I do – you see.
And that is all there is to it.
What is the point in this talk anyway.
If I dont agree with you
I am a liar or I am not educated enough.
Whatever it is you are looking for – have a nice summer!

Best regards Bente

BlackSun / July 3rd, 2008, 2:42 pm / #14

Bente,

Thanks for conceding it’s a matter of your preference. And thanks for bowing out.

You see, it’s not about agreement, or opinion, it’s about knowledge. The facts of the universe don’t bend to our wishes–yours or mine. They stand unaffected before all our feeble attempts to apprehend them. With methodical study and discipline, we can catch a glimpse of ultimate truth. Or we can sit in self-reinforcing groups and tell each other bedtime stories. Some people understand the difference, and some do not.

Those who can’t handle the rigors of uncompromising knowledge make do with religion.

That’s all there is to it.

Louis / July 4th, 2008, 4:26 am / #15

This isn’t even remotely about asking you to prove you can think.

I said before; I have no doubt you imagined these beings. You did think about them.

If you were like me, you’d spend many, MANY hours in decree sessions, repeating worded constructs over an over multiple times, watching video’s, (either ‘dictations’ from the alleged masters through ECP, or instruction and teaching) or reading TSL books. You invested (at the very least) a great deal of time (and most likely tithed) a great deal of money, in this belief.

I can completely understand how that kind of an investment would be important, as would be the need for that investment to have meaning.

That is the crux of it for me, though linchpin would be a better term…

Belief is the perpetrator and perpetuator here. It is the case with ALL faiths, even the pagan ones. Without you wanting, desiring and willing this schlock to be real, it doesn’t hold up independent of that crutch.

Faith can NOT stand on its own feet, however many feet that may be. It requires you to support its existence.

So no one is asking you to prove you can think, we all accept that you think and imagine these beings.

If, in fact they are real, and not something you made up (imagined)… then they should exist independent of your ‘BELIEF’ in them… and right there is when the house of cards comes tumbling down.

If something is there, it shouldn’t be that difficult to prove.

It is only a difficult task, when that something never existed in the first place.

These beings do NOT exist outside of your belief in them.

So believe in them till you are blue in the face…

The moment you claim this schlock to be real; then the burden of proof is yours.

This is why it is my own personal desire, that the religious of any denomination would either put up (the proof), or STFU already!

Bente Berg / July 4th, 2008, 10:32 am / #16

As I said before- I dont have the time to talk on this level.

The brain decides what is knowledge. We can not know anything in the world without using the brain. Why is it that sometimes the brain does not telle the truth and sometimes it idoes not
– and you guys decide when the brain is doing one or the other?

I believe and know and feel and see the angels, the Ascended masters and Jesus the Christ.
And I am aware that we sit on a planet in the universe somewhere among billions of other planets. And we know wery little. That is why we have a need to believe.

As I said before
Have a nice summer. Go for a swim and enjoy

Best regards Bente

BlackSun / July 4th, 2008, 11:09 am / #17

The brain decides what is knowledge.

Bente,

Sorry, but is it possible for you to more completely miss the point? The brain most certainly does not decide what is knowledge. That can only be done through multiple observers comparing notes with the rigorous discipline of the empirical scientific method.

The brain is notoriously unreliable as an engine of perception. We see what we want to see. Yet painstaking study over hundreds of years has yielded a reliable way to take the individual brain out of the equation.

When you say “I believe,” you ignore and disdain all that hard work that has been done. It’s like a child saying “I won’t, I won’t, I won’t” when presented with a difficult task. (In this case, the task of squarely facing gnawing existential questions).

Think about all those billions and billions of other planets you mentioned. On at least some of them we can be virtually certain there is intelligent life. Somewhere else in the universe, there is a person just like you insisting they “know” and “believe” in Gorp, Klatu, and the Grogglefenders. They are just as tenacious in insisting that they are “real.” They have even seen and felt them. You may scoff. But the only reason you think Gorp, Klatu and the Grogglefenders are absurd is because you weren’t raised in that religion. This type of belief (whatever the names may be) is a developmental stage in the evolution of intelligent life–but only a stage. We create our own imaginary friends. I suggest for you Matthew Alper’s book The God Part of the Brain.

Hard as it is, if you want to live in reality, you need to accept that the “angels, Ascended masters and Jesus the Christ” are no different than Gorp, Klatu, and the Grogglefenders. Figments of the mass imagination, passed down, worshiped, and referred to so often they have gained social reinforcement and an air of unquestioned credibility–the air of the “sacred.” But they have also become a psychological crutch which enrich the promoters, and systematically prevent believers from focusing on the real: observation, self-knowledge, and becoming emotionally self-reliant.

It’s little different from drug addiction.

Bente, since it’s the 4th of July, I think it’s a good day for you to declare yourself independent of these worthless and parasitic superstitions. What do you say? As for me, I’m definitely going to take your suggestion, fire up that barbecue, and go for a swim in my pool (not necessarily in that order). Cheers.

Abogada de la Diabla / July 6th, 2008, 12:37 am / #18

I too was part of Church Universal and Triumphant, since birth. I am less concerned with the discussion of solipsism and the burden of proof as I am with the legacy of the church. If the ascended masters were real, they certainly were not focusing on something constructive. Holy is as holy does; and for 23 years I witnessed a consistent message that was designed to bolster the personas of Mark and Elizabeth Prophet and not to help the followers of the church or the planet as a whole.

In my opinion, the mechanics of Elizabeth Clare Prophet’s personality made the most impact during what is collectively known as “the shelter period” (1989-90). They made a big impression in the form of her withdrawal from society based on a fearful acceptance of any number of interpretations of prophecies from Nostradamus to Edgar Cayce, coupled with a narcissistic belief that her whimsical firings were in fact messages from God.

During my 23 years at the church, I had two experiences that seemed to show evidence that we were indeed connected to the heavenly elite. But I later came to realize that these were filtered through my ideas of how my higher self crystallized into visual form – based on training from the church. I have now come to believe that these experiences had more to do with my own intuition than anything else, and I have come to believe that the brain is infinitely more powerful than we are aware. In other words, my brain had already taken in a volume of available information and made a decision based on that information, before I could even realize it.

Discussion of belief aside, the absolute truth remains that we have certain verifiable facts about C.U.T. that are undeniable. The bullet points mentioned by Black Sun qualify in that category. Those who dare to acknowledge these facts will be freed from the imprisonment of a narcissistic new religion.

I’m sitting by a pool right now!

Best regards Abogada de la Diabla

Bente Berg / July 6th, 2008, 2:28 am / #19

Dear Abogada

I am sorry to see that so many people later think that what they were doing for 20 years or more is a mistake.
I have experienced personal things that go beond anything ECP ever talked about.
My exeriences with the masters, with the angels and with this teaching has been
confirmed to me over and over. I have seen and heard what I can not even begin to tell
anyone.
And I want to tell you all that the spiritual world is full of love and beauty, the angels are real beings and the Ascended masters are as real as you and me.
They walk and talk with people personally today- messenger or no messenger.
I know that I will arise a storm of hatred and anger by saying this in a forum like tha Black Journal
I am the mother of 3 grown children and the grandmother of 8.
I have more that 10 years education and I work all week. I am down to earth.

I wish you could see that there are more than one perspective in this matter of
CUT and religion.
Best regards Bente

anonymous / August 19th, 2010, 5:55 pm / #20

I've gotten spam that sounds just like this Bente…. except it talks about having proof of my new fortune in ireland due to my deceased imaginary friend.

Louis / July 6th, 2008, 6:38 am / #21

I have seen and heard what I can not even begin to tell anyone.

and yet you won’t shut up about it.

I have experienced personal things that go beyond anything ECP ever talked about.

yeah, last night I pulled my pud… it was eye rolling, ecstatically pleasurable… made a lovely string of pearls too… aren’t you all glad I shared that… ;)

I want to tell you all that the spiritual world is full of love and beauty,

is there masturbation?

the angels are real beings and the Ascended masters are as real as you and me.

that is the claim that puts you up a brown creek without a paddle, lady. if that were true, proving them wouldn’t be difficult… they aren’t real, like you and me. they don’t exist on the same plane of being as you, or me. so stop saying they do! if that were true, everyone would see and know about them. there’d be nothing to argue.

angels and ascended masters are figments of the imagination.

if they are more than that, it has yet to be tangibly proven.

They (angels & ascended masters) walk and talk with people personally today-

and there are churches of ‘The Force’ where you can study to become a Jedi Master. and Harry Potter is remarkably well known for something that came out of the imagination of J. K. Rowling. and Tom Cruise is fighting a Galactic Battle with Lord Xenu.

all very entertaining… nice escapism, if that’s what you are after. I enjoy a good movie as much as the next. heck, I am a gamer. I love escapism. so i won’t ever tell you not to believe what you do.

I know that I will arise a storm of hatred and anger by saying this in a forum like the Black Journal

I don’t hate you. I think you are misguided and gullible and I don’t agree with you… but, if hate is what you are reading… thats the record playing in your head, not mine.

All I am asking is that if you claim something, and expect others to accept it… you back it up with more than anecdotal.

I could be lying about the masturbation thing, but if proof is something you are after there… you ain’t getting squat, cause that stuff is personal…

I hope I’ve made my point.

;)

BlackSun / July 6th, 2008, 10:01 am / #22

I have experienced personal things that go beond anything ECP ever talked about. My exeriences with the masters, with the angels and with this teaching has been confirmed to me over and over. I have seen and heard what I can not even begin to tell anyone.

Bente,

All this proves is that you are susceptible to a particular brand of hallucination, and when you stumbled across the “teachings” they confirmed what was already going on in your own head. It’s also a form of “confirmation bias.” Have you ever sat down and made a list of disconfirming information? Like for example when you prayed and the prayer was NOT answered? Or when a master “told” you to do something and it turned out to be wrong?

There are thousands upon thousands of people in psych wards all over the world who insist they’ve had similar experiences. The only thing that separates garden variety believers such as yourself from mental patients is the degree of ability to function. You are I’m sure educated and high-functioning. But the experiences you mention are no more real than a mentai patient who insists he has “aliens in his ass” (true story). For him, he really does have aliens in his ass. His brain is making perceptual errors in its simulation of reality that lead him to believe this obviously untrue state of affairs. But that is not a reality that is true for anyone else. It prevents him from functioning, and causes him to go around exposing himself in public and worse, so he is incarcerated in an asylum for the criminally insane.

Louis’ point is well taken, and it’s clear that he really could produce evidence of his masturbation if he so desired, unlike you–who no matter how much you are pressed can only fall back on ever more insistent assertions.

There is another book called Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me). The authors detail the amazing lengths humans will go to achieve self-justification. Ironically, the longer you have spent in an erroneous belief or mistaken course of action, the more vociferously does the machinery of your brain resist the admission of truth.

There is an economic term known as “sunk costs.” Briefly, it involves the tendency of people to continue in a course of action based on money (or time) already spent. Even if it can be rationally shown that it would be cheaper to abandon the project and start over, many people will still choose to chase sunk costs.

You should look at your years of investment in beliefs in Ascended Masters as a sunk cost. I know that’s very hard for you to accept. For me it was a 30 year investment. But even if you only had five years left to live, it would still be better to spend it in rational inquiry and rigorous self-examination than to wallow in the self-indulgence of these sickly sweet pastel fantasies.

To me, movies and gaming are far less damaging as forms of escapism, because we see them as such. You don’t see your beliefs as escapism–so you will change your life to follow them. As Abogada said, it is the results that count. You cannot get away from the fact that is is a wholly misguided power that caused people to put their lives on hold and pour tens of millions of dollars into the ground. Had we been rational, we would have built expedient shelters and gotten on with it. Instead, based on “divine revelation” it took on the tone of an Apocalypse.

Philosophically, we cannot argue from result. Many true propositions produce “bad” results, and many false ones “good” results. It is a logical fallacy to say that result has anything to do with truth. Truth can only be ascertained by rigorous evaluation of facts. In order to do that, we must first define what are and are not factual questions. Your assertions of your personal experiences are not factual–they cannot be proven or disproven. But there are thousands of other religions, all with adherents as enthusiastic and effusive as you are. Like dreams, these mass hallucinations know no bounds and have no check or balance on their outlandishness. Surely you can see the problem?

Bente Berg / July 6th, 2008, 10:40 am / #23

To whom it might consern here

If all you can say to me is that I am mentally ill, I am a liar and so on….

why talk to you at all??

Bente

BlackSun / July 6th, 2008, 10:54 am / #24

why talk to you at all??

Because, Bente, maybe the facade is beginning to crack? Maybe you are starting to question these things and maybe I can help you. Because you keep saying that you “don’t have time for this” and yet you keep coming back. I see that as a good sign. Go with it. Keep questioning those beliefs and experiences. Get upset, even. You’ve been swindled–sold a bill of goods.

The equivalence to mental illness is the refusal to self-examine. The lying is the lying to yourself to protect your sunk costs.

Now, let’s hear you address some of the points I’ve raised instead of just sputtering with indignation. How’s that list of disconfirming events coming? Are you wiling to actually mount a rational inquiry into your beliefs? Come on! I’m rooting for you. It’s the next level of intellectual and psychological maturity, and you are so ready for it or you wouldn’t keep coming here!

What do you say? Come on in, Bente, the water’s fine!! ;-)

Ann / August 11th, 2008, 4:33 am / #25

I seem to have connected with the Summit Lighthouse group off on on just prior to this “Bomb Shelter” experience. I was in Rosecrucian 7 years, and so some simular beliefs, but, although, RC does believe their our Guides and Spiritual beings, they don’t “invoke” them.

Undestandable I’d find some simular teachings of the RC, since, Mark Prophet had been in Rosecrucians. Rosecrucian’s discourage channeling as there are “dead” people who apparently drift about on astral plane seeking bodies, as naturally they lost their own. I just felt Elizabeth probably she was a real believer, and a religious woman. But, I felt she went off the deep end, in some areas.

So, anyway, I did practice degrees for some time, but, whenever I practiced the “Violet Flame” although, it made me feel really “High” in a sort of “Estasy” afterward a lot of negative stuff would begin to happen to me.

They told me, I had some “St. Germain” Karma, since, it was that ascended Master I seemed the most uncomfortable with.

I think it mingled too much “Religious Doctrine” in it for me, infact, I know it did. I began to practice with a Wiccan Group, which I actually felt a bit more comfortable with, and just using Archtypes, for invoking certain type energies-the concept isn’t that much different, yet,due to religious nature of CUT, they’d condemn Wiccans. So much of the Judeo-Christian Influence-mingled with some Eastern, Rosecrucian and Spiritualist beliefs. Quite a mixture. I know many members felt it fulfilling and made them happy.
If it worked for them, and they were happy, certainly no harm done. One persons poison can be another persons nectar.

Now days there are many channelers, one I am near now is J.Z. Knight_Ramtha, who also does trance channeling, who charges huge sums of money, and living in style. Seems these people attract the “Elite” like Shirley McLaine, and Linda Evans. Supposely Ramtha guided her here, as felt this area would be safer-during the coming dark days.

Now people are deep into the 2012 scenario. There may be some truth to it, but, then again, it could go til 2025 etc. Until George W. Bush, only the USA really had nukes, but, I’m sure he did give some to “Israel” and “Zionist” are about as radical as can be, so I’m a bit nervous, knowing that. Frankly the USA is dangerous, as only country that ever used a WMD, atomic bomb.

The main evil in the “Nuclear Threat” is to keep every one terrorized, and thus, thinking they must compete, is necessary to have excuse to spend billions of tax payers money, in the Privatized Military Industry-and manipulating all of us.

Yes, indeed. That is indeed a diabolic scheme, spelt out in “Tragedy and Hope” and Oxford textbook, by Quigley, that an elite group of men, originally English, like the Rothchilds and Counsel of Foreign Relations, controlled the worlds politicians, banks, financial institutions, and other assets, and played one government against another in wars, to control the world.

By creating enemies without, hyping it up like the “Mushroom Cloud” stuff, gets people to give them whatever they want, money, homes, freedom, and I think they must be amused, as if in playing a game of chess.

The USA and ZIonist, have duplicated Nazi Germany, and both exercise “Torture”. Even though its clear now, they lied about Iraq, people have short memories and buying the exact same line, now, when it comes to Iran.

So its really ignorance, and if one truly believed in God and Immortality, they wouldn’t fear any of these things, nor feel it necessary to hide in bomb shelters, as who’d want to come back out and breathe in all that toxic air, who’d want to see dead bodies about, and why “Fear Death” when one is certain that they can ascend to bigger and better places.

“There really is nothing to fear-accept fear itself”

I do respect those who are atheist and yet, are self-confident and will balanced people, but, I’ve found most atheist are really agnostic. Spiritual things cannot be proven, they can only be “Experienced”.

Elizabeth was an interesting person, and I know many people adored her.

Blessed Be,

Astara

Amen A. Sigala / August 15th, 2008, 12:10 am / #26

Sean I mentioned I would like to contribute. Not to write so much like I know I can, simply, ur mother when I called her to take her invitation for a Montissouri education (didn’t have a ph wking at the time) she got members to come and get me packed immediatly! to go to the RTR Headquarters. She charged the only type of flight available, 1st class one way on her American Exp, $1000, I remember being told this as to be made to feel a gratitude I must have not been showing. When ur mother didn’t stick to her invitation for a Montissouri edu. because I didn’t stick w/ kitchen duties to her satisfaction she sent me off, having to pay for my own way bk!!!!! She let me kindly though stay at the Livingston Teaching Center at the time to wk localy to pay for my way bk!!! Hell no was I going to give her that satisfaction!! I waited till my mom had the $ to send me and paid her, my mom not urs, bk later!!
What she did broke me more and just added to my hell at the time and but I still couldn’t let go of the teachings!!! NUTS!!!
There’s more but I’ll save that for the docu.

BlackSun / August 20th, 2008, 9:01 am / #27

If it worked for them, and they were happy, certainly no harm done. One persons poison can be another persons nectar.

Astara,

I disagree that there’s no harm done. Sometimes we need to go through making mistakes in order to learn. But time is the only irreplaceable commodity. So if people cling to false beliefs for an excessively long period, it becomes pathological. Obviously, they are getting something they want. But people also get what they want when they eat junk food.

I think it’s important to get what you need, to paraphrase a famous song.

Now people are deep into the 2012 scenario. There may be some truth to it, but, then again, it could go til 2025 etc.

There will always be people prattling about doomsday in this or that year. It’s been going on for all of human history.

The USA and ZIonist, have duplicated Nazi Germany, and both exercise “Torture”. Even though its clear now, they lied about Iraq, people have short memories and buying the exact same line, now, when it comes to Iran.

The U.S. is not like Nazi Germany. Statements like that trivialize what happened under Hitler, and exaggerate the case for what’s happening now. Yes our government has plumbed new depths of corruption and violations of human rights. But the only reason people compare us to Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia is because they never actually lived under those regimes. The conspiracy stuff makes me puke. People, nations, and corporations act in their own interest, and this behavior does not need a grand conspiracy to explain it. The laws of power are sufficient.

I do respect those who are atheist and yet, are self-confident and will balanced people, but, I’ve found most atheist are really agnostic. Spiritual things cannot be proven, they can only be “Experienced”.

Yes, the default position is agnosticism. But it’s not a 50-50 chance like it sounds. There is an infinitesimally small probability that any particular god exists. To be intellectually honest, we have to admit the possibility. But that is not the same as saying it’s likely.

Your last statement is a typical misconception. It overprivileges personal experience. How do you distinguish a “spiritual experience” from a daydream?

Allison / October 17th, 2008, 10:14 am / #28

Sean,
New to your site. I was 15 and on staff when this whole fiasco unfolded. I worked closely in the prep process (processing and dehydrating tons of food). We didn’t go to school during that time…we just did hard physical labor for which we weren’t paid. I remember vividly the night we spent in the shelter…the color of the curtains, the drone of decrees in the background, squatting on plastic bag-lined buckets to relieve ourselves. These, they promised, would be replaced with more normal toilets soon.

As a 15 year old girl, what I remember feeling most was a sense of dread that somehow I would be expected to take an active role in repopulating the earth. I also worried about how I would cover my breakouts after reemergence. How far would the 10 bottles of Cover Girl foundation go that I had insisted my mother buy? I remember listening horrified that if we became contaminated by fallout on the bus ride to the Heart, we would have to take a shower during which our hair would be shaved. I would have rather died! My memories are mostly visceral–smells, sensations, colors, etc.

As an Atheist even then, none of the frenzied prep seemed worth it. I wanted to be left out there to die with the sane.

I think your documentary sounds like a good idea. I’d love to be involved in any way. I have friends with whom I am still in contact. It might be interesting to have a youger perspective.

I tried to email you at the above website, but couldn’t seem to. If you are still working on this project, perhaps you could update your contact info.

Eric / December 15th, 2008, 1:10 pm / #29

Sean,
I came to Montana when I was 21 during the middle of the shelter cycle. I always had my doubts about CUT but I personally had no problem building civil defense shelters at the hieght of the cold war. (Serious threat of nuclear war=Build a Shelter) what’s the big deal.
That’s no less logical than a person who had a warped upbringing developing a web site to challenge anyone who does not now have the same atheistic beliefs as you.
(Raised as a confused prince=Set up site to challenge anyone who apposes your beliefs)
It’s funny how you use some of the same mental techniques to push your atheistic beliefs as your mother used to push hers. Surround your self will people yhat have similar beliefs. It’s a good security blanket.
Maybe it’s time to get over it, it was a good experience for some and a bad one for others. Such is life. Suck it up and move on Big Guy.

Ps. My cousin was in the active duty air force in South Dakota, (ElsworthAFB) at the advise of his commanding officer he sent his wife and children to her fathers shelther in Glastonbury, as India and Pakistan were on the brink of Nuclear war. He also said, and I quote…”I don’t know who has been leaking military intel to that Church group in montana.
Also Google Paul harvey on “India and Pakistan” and take note of the date that was the high point of the stand off. Probably just a coincidence….but who really knows????

Have a great life.
Eric

BlackSun / December 15th, 2008, 2:13 pm / #30

Hi Eric,

The shelters were built not at the height, but ironically and conspicuously at the end of the cold war. The Berlin wall was coming down at the end of 1989 right before the supposed danger period. Potential nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan had exactly what relevance to Montana, USA?

If that was what was feared, why was the prophecy for a Soviet strike, and why were we expecting to spend 7 months in shelters? Why were 100 psi blast valves installed at great trouble and expense? Why were we told to prepare for earth changes and 200 mph winds? Why were the shelter bunks fitted with seat belts?

It’s easy to come up with post-hoc rationalizations for illogical behavior. It makes it easier to accept the tremendous waste of resources if you view it not as a mistake but some kind of prudent precaution. That preserves the illusion of rationality for “sunk costs.”

My sister’s book explains what we were actually preparing for and how the decisions were made. It had nothing to do with Pakistan or India, and everything to do with an expected “judgment” coming through a full-scale attack from the Soviet Union. An attack that at a certain point we were instructed to decree for, not against.

“Let the bombs descend” is not exactly a call for mitigation, if you know what I mean.

As for your statements about “confused prince,” “suck it up,” etc.: Let’s get one thing straight, I don’t care what you believe. I’m here to talk about what happened and provide a place for others to do the same. You don’t have to be here. No one is forcing anything on anyone. I write social, philosophical and religious criticism in the great American tradition of dissent.

I advocate a scientific approach, which is not a belief system, but rather a method for the elimination of beliefs and the embrace of verifiable and provable knowledge.

I wish you well.

fanona / June 10th, 2009, 3:30 am / #31

I was there too…may not remember all the names involved..good for them..but if it's not too late, this might be the completion/closure I've needed all these years. Let me know if you are still taking input. fanona1@yahoo.com

Toneman625 / June 18th, 2009, 10:54 pm / #32

Wow Sean,
I'm so glad I was broke and couldn't afford to be one of those "Pioneers" when the "call went out" at Camelot. I had only heard marginal reports about the bomb shelters that my old friends were spending their life savings on. I had stayed behind in California and was busy trying to make a living in show biz. As I remember the original reason for moving to Montana was that So Cali was doomed.

BlackSun / June 19th, 2009, 10:51 am / #33

Yes, doomed, I tell you. I've been living in fear these last 15 years–not! You were one of the lucky ones. What do you do in show biz?

Toneman625 / June 22nd, 2009, 7:27 am / #34

Well until five years ago I mostly looked for work. Actually I worked as an Audio Producer on multimedia traning programs and as a lighting ant technical director on the occational short film. Then I worked for Walt Disney Records until they did one of their seasonal lay offs. Now I teach technical theater at a local high school.

Toneman625 / June 18th, 2009, 10:55 pm / #35

Well as you know, in 1990 there was a massive tidal wave and LA was lost forever followed by weekly eartquakes that lasted a year. Oh wait, that is the premise in my alternate history screenplay. Anyway, I'm STILL in LA, and now I guess we all just do the best we can and hang in there. __I hope the doc is succesful, I'd be glad to share with you any of the stuff that happened to me prior to the "big move" I was not a part of. Let me know. I just ordered Erin's book on Amazon and I sent a facebook request to Montessori Intl. I'd love to find some old classmates from Colo, Pasadena and Camelot, see what they are up to.__I go hiking from time to time at the King Gillette Ranch (Camelot) trying to purge some of the old memorys. They were shooting "Biggest Looser" there last time I went.
Have a great one and let me know if I can help.
T. P.

BlackSun / June 19th, 2009, 10:53 am / #36

Sure thing, do you want to be interviewed? Email me sean@seanprophet.com. Take care.

MMM / December 10th, 2009, 6:04 am / #37

I would be really interesting in seeing this documentary. I"m afraid I can't really contribute with photos or detailed stories.

I was four or 5 at the time. I just remember playing in bunk-beds and the adults were very nervous. I think we stayed on night then went home.

I'm 25 and haven't been involved for few years. It is hard to say If I regret my time there. Regret assumes I had a choice and I didn't.

Crown pointed out:

1- ECP had a power complex royale.

2-She kind of crammed it down your throat, and you were a boy/male and so got the worst of it psychologically. It wasn’t right.

I always felt 2 was true. At TMS and at conferences I always felt that being a male was somehow inherently wrong or flawed.

Just when I'm think I'm done with the CUT stuff it resurfaces.

Pablo Fumero / October 21st, 2010, 5:47 pm / #38

Sean, I've contacted you before. I hold no grudges towards you or your siblings, even your Mom. I just found out of her passing and I wish to convey you and your sisters my condolences. I was involved in the Camelot era but never made it to The ranch. I just sort of fell off it slowly. I look forward to your sister's book as I feel it will answer many questions that I had at the time that I was not allowed to ask without retribution. It will bring closure. I met her briefly at the Trujillo mansion in Miami a long time ago. At the time I did it because I thought I was doing some good. Things change. I was good friends with Norman Millman as I'm sure you know him. I wish you well. Take care.

Anonymous / May 24th, 2013, 1:30 pm / #39

I use to be a very dedicated follower of the teachings of Theosophy, Saint Germain and Elizabeth C. Prophet but greatly outgrew it and learned that the Kal and the Occult was truly evil. I found a book titled "The Tigers Fang" authored by Paul Twitchell that provides knowledge of the true way of true spirituality of the Higher Heavens.

Carla McDonald / June 13th, 2016, 2:17 pm / #40

I just finished a novel by C. J. Box, called The Highway, where the Church was mentioned, under a different name, and it brought a few memories flooding back – one enough to remember the name of the Church Universal, and look it up. I had moved from Texas in 1988 to take a position as Main Street Manager in Jackson (to keep out Wa lMart, unbeknownst to me- not a Historic Preservation position, but a political one.) There is no Wal Mart there, to this day, but I did end up managing a local motel there until 1993. One of the Budget Managers (I'll find out his name if there is any interest) would come to the hotel on the nights I worked late, and tell me stories of the Church. He and his wife divorced over it, so it seems. He said that one of the plans was to provide heat for the church by hooking into the geysers and hot springs available. The plan fell through, as it changed the environment so much that geysers that had previously been active, became inactive, and others began to erupt. Someone in Jackson (?) became aware of this change, and made the church follow the normal route of getting heat and hot water. He also told me that when the DAY came, and everyone went underground, it was to learn that with all the work that had gone into the shelter, toilets had not been provided. This caused great consternation, as you can imagine. Now, so you can judge for yourself, or let me know the truth, I became uncomfortable about his late night visits. He was never out of line, nor was that the reason for his visits, I think he needed to talk about his ex-wife's obsession with the Church. And then, one night, he wanted me to touch his head. When I declined, he said that I really needed to, as he was from Mars, and I could tell by the shape of his head. And, it was really weird, but that was the last night that I appeared to be available for a visit. This is a man who was given the task of handling the incoming and outgoing money of a popular downtown motel! Once, when he wanted to chastise me about something, (and I can't remember what, because he didn't get to.) he called me to his office and locked the door behind him. I went into Texas mode, on the verge of Hissy Fit, told him he could call me or send me an email, and I unlocked the door, left, and tattled on him. His head really WAS a strange shape, though. It was interesting for me to remember all of this, I left Wyoming in 1993, and now live in Montana.

Post a comment

Comments are closed for this post.